What is going on with these tests? And what impact does Amquel Plus have?

[topofthehill1]

My pond was overstocked most of this year because I grew out some goldfish fry and really just wanted to watch them grow last year. In the spring time I was able to give some away but found most of them too hard to catch.

My water parameters over the summer have been reading ok except the nitrate are 80-160 by the end of 7 days. Hard to tell exactly. I use API drop test kits. After 7 days 10-20% water change but my tap also has 10 ppm nitrates. Nitrates usually fall back down.
Gradually this problem was getting worse to where I was doing small water changes daily.

Then I had to go to a funeral out of town for 8 days. I had my dad feed less than I had been feeding and about 1/2 the dose of amquel plus that it reads on the label on a daily basis. I really didn't see another alternative as I didn't have anyone whom I trusted to water change. I do not understand how amquel works but it has saved me in a hospital tank situation before. In retrospect I would just not feed them. But that seems a little cruel too.

I get back after 8 days test the water. Nitrates are down to 20 ppm But the Ammonia has gone up to 1.0ppm Normally Ammonia would not register and Nitrates should be very high.

Don't understand but I change water 20% WATER and remove about 35 fish. Did not add amquel. After worrying about my fish for 8 days I vowed to resolve the problem when I returned. Feed same amount.

The next day Ammonia has gone up to 8ppm. Everything else not registering. Clean filter. 10% water change. Add about 1/4 dose amquel. The only chlorine remover I have is also an ammonia remover. I am beginning to wonder if this is a problem.

Next day ph drops from usual 7.2 to_6.0 I actually don't have the low ph test. Ammonia 2.0 and Nitrites 1 Nitrates 20-40
10% water change

Today PH 6.0, Ammonia 4.0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20. Temp 78F

10 % change, Add Amquel

Did I crash my filter?? Am I stuck in a vicious Amquel cycle? I guess I will continue with small water changes until things level out. I do not understand the Ammonia spikes when all summer the only readings that have been high were the Nitrates??

Filter is homemade Matala Matting and static basket. Fish get fed once a day in the evening. Water test are in the evening. API drop tests. Fish appear to be more active since I've removed the goldfish. Not staying on bottom. Koi and goldfish. I think thats the highlights.

Preparing for my lecture now.

 

[Mmathis]

No lecture just questions...... How big is your pond & how many fish do you think you have -- how big are they? What does your pH normally run, and do you test for KH?

 

[CometKeith]

Good luck figuring out what to do. I'm not sure if you will get the answer you want from anyone. Most people on gpf don't use chemicals in their ponds. In my opinion it's much easier to do things naturally by letting the pond cycle and build up bb and do water changes when necessary if ammonia and nitrite readings get too high.

 

[topofthehill1]

No lecture just questions...... How big is your pond & how many fish do you think you have -- how big are they? What does your pH normally run, and do you test for KH?

Its roughly in the 900-1000 gallons. The current number of goldfish is hard to say but I am probably down to 9 goldfish 6 inches long and another 9 goldfish about 3-4'' long. 4 koi average about 11 inches. I may be slightly overstocked currently but prior to going out of town I was only really battling nitrates so removing all the goldfish should have improved my tests.

PH usually 7.5-8. I have the KH test but I never really use it because I don't really understood how to change the KH. I can test it and post results.

 

[topofthehill1]

Good luck figuring out what to do. I'm not sure if you will get the answer you want from anyone. Most people on gpf don't use chemicals in their ponds. In my opinion it's much easier to do things naturally by letting the pond cycle and build up bb and do water changes when necessary if ammonia and nitrite readings get too high.

Thanks, I put myself in a jam by having too many fish and not being able to go out of town. I usually don't use chemicals either as the pond was cycled and I had only registered nitrates for months now. But going out of town I had no way to manage the water changes. I also had to go out of town when the nitrates levels continued to get worse and worse.
I wonder if either the Amquel skews the test results. Or if I killed my good bacteria on my filter by using the ammonia reducers.

 

[Mmathis]

I think that when you add chemicals to reduce or bind the ammonia, your tests will still show high, even though the levels are reduced..... I don't know the chemistry involved, but that's what I've read.

Yes, test for KH. We can walk you through what to do if that needs to be adjusted. The KH of the water is a buffer that helps stabilize the pH.

Maybe @crsublette or @fishin4cars will chime in with some help.

And yes, you probably are over-stocked (sorry, but you knew the lecture was coming..... )

 

[JohnHuff]

Filter is homemade Matala Matting and static basket.

Part of your problem is that your don't have a bio-filter. Your current filter is a mechanical filter. I would strongly recommend making a DIY biofilter.

 

[Mmathis]

Part of your problem is that your don't have a bio-filter. Your current filter is a mechanical filter. I would strongly recommend making a DIY biofilter.

I have a Skippy filter on the pond and the primary filter media for bio is Matala. I also have a TT for my quarantine tank, and the primary media for that is also Matala [for the TT, I have the pump in a box with sponge pads to act as mechanical filtration before the water gets to the TT]. Both function very well for bioconversion.

Maybe his isn't large enough.....?

 

[JohnHuff]

I have a Skippy filter on the pond and the primary filter media for bio is Matala. I also have a TT for my quarantine tank, and the primary media for that is also Matala [for the TT, I have the pump in a box with sponge pads to act as mechanical filtration before the water gets to the TT]. Both function very well for bioconversion.

Maybe his isn't large enough.....?

Matala is not good biofiltration material. It's better used as a mechanical filter.

 

[Dave 54]

You can get bags of zeolite to put into your filter or pond to get rid of the Ammonia rather than lock it away as you have done with you Amquel (its still there just not as harmful to your fish) which is only a short term measure you cant keep adding it you have to look for the source of your problem and correct it .
Buy two bags of zeolite then you can have one charged the other working then after a few months swop them over recharging the older zeolite in a bucket of salt with around two mugs of salt disolved into it after 48 hours its ready for the next time in your filters or pond
The same can be said with your Ph most shops carry a product that will bring it down but we have to look into why you have suddenly lost control of your pond.
I have a 1,000 gallon imperial former QT pond from a koi dealership retrofitted to use as a pond and we do 40% water changes each week so your 20% waterchange just wont cut it I'm afraid .
Nitrates in tap water supply indicate there is a run off from fields to a reservour possibly from farmers fertilizing their fields (at least that's what we see every year) but if it goes back down then that isnt a problem but then you contradict yourself by saying you've had nitrates all summer in the pond
How much in the way of areation do you have on your pond please?
Matala I presume is akin to Jap matting and is as John oints out mechanical
When was the last time you gave your filters a good clean and do you ever give the bottom of the pond a clean out or do you have a bottom drain as we do Filters as a rule of thumb should be cleaned in late spring mid summer and late fall pond bottoms should be kept as clean as possible of detritus leaves and debries.


Dave
.

 

[topofthehill1]

I regrettably do not have a bottom drain. But when I rebuild I will include a bottom drain.

I have a tetra 2900 gph in pond pump which inputs on the back upper side of the truck box. The blue and white pads catch most of the sludge/poo. The white pads are quilt batting and filter out most of the fines. These are hosed out once a week. And the quilt batting gets thrown away every few weeks. The matala matting is behind that. The black is the lighter density and the grey is the higher density. Its similar to J-mat but not really the same. Its sturdier but not as dense. Occasionally I will give it a shake but really not much collects there.

On the left is a stainless steel microscreen. Those grey pvc pipes are just to maintain the bucket from collapse. The bucket usually sits lower when the lid is on. There is a stand pipe with holes drilled in it in the middle of the bucket that exits to the pond. Most of the sludge that isn't caught in the initial stages eventually ends up in the bottom. Once a week I divert the output to my yard pull everything you see and pull the stand pipe and flush until it runs clear.

I actually bought the matala matting because of my frustration with the bioballs.

I'm making a separate post with my tests from today. I don't think its has anything to do with my filter. If I could do anything personally I would just put a barrel in front of this for a settlement chamber. But I am open to suggestions/criticism.

 

[topofthehill1]

Maybe my first post was a little too wordy.

Once a week I test water, clean filter and change water. Since the spring the ph 7.5-8.0, ammonia (doesn't register), Nitrites (doesn't register), Nitrates 10-20. Nirtrates Overtime 20-40. 40-80. I had been blaming overstocking. But recently it occurred to me to test the tap. I'm probably getting 20 out of the tap.

Then went out of town, dosed the amquel for safety. Returned to completely different test numbers. Had to get in the pond to catch the goldfish so I pulled all the lilies cut anything that was dead or looked like it was dying. Its a linear on the bottom so I can keep it pretty clean with a net. I really wasn't trying to remove the ammonia on water changes but only reasonably priced chlorine/chloramine remover is also an ammonia product. Previously I had a product that did not mention being an ammonia remover but the local store does not have it. So I was tossing that out there as a possibility for what was causing my problems.

I think you are on to something with the larger water change because of the Nitrate numbers I am getting out of my tap being so high.

I have a tetra air pump which off the box
APK-100 Air Pump

400 L/h5 watts5,000 gallons
. I usually replace my air pump every year because it seems the performance decreases a lot. Between my pump return and this it looks like a lot of air. I know thats a rather unofficial report.

Can I just order any zeolite I find on eBay or are there certain ones?

This mornings test. Note I usually test in the evening.
PH 6
Ammonia 2-4 (its hard for me to read these tests)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40ppm
KH umm the first drop was yellow which according to my chart is 0-50ppm. I think this is bad.
GH 10 drops which on the scale is 100-200ppm
And since I have a little attention might as well use the only other tests I have.
Phosphate 10ppm
TDS 290 from cheap electronic tester.

Thanks for everyones input.

You can get bags of zeolite to put into your filter or pond to get rid of the Ammonia rather than lock it away as you have done with you Amquel (its still there just not as harmful to your fish) which is only a short term measure you cant keep adding it you have to look for the source of your problem and correct it .
Buy two bags of zeolite then you can have one charged the other working then after a few months swop them over recharging the older zeolite in a bucket of salt with around two mugs of salt disolved into it after 48 hours its ready for the next time in your filters or pond
The same can be said with your Ph most shops carry a product that will bring it down but we have to look into why you have suddenly lost control of your pond.
I have a 1,000 gallon imperial former QT pond from a koi dealership retrofitted to use as a pond and we do 40% water changes each week so your 20% waterchange just wont cut it I'm afraid .
Nitrates in tap water supply indicate there is a run off from fields to a reservour possibly from farmers fertilizing their fields (at least that's what we see every year) but if it goes back down then that isnt a problem but then you contradict yourself by saying you've had nitrates all summer in the pond
How much in the way of areation do you have on your pond please?
Matala I presume is akin to Jap matting and is as John oints out mechanical
When was the last time you gave your filters a good clean and do you ever give the bottom of the pond a clean out or do you have a bottom drain as we do Filters as a rule of thumb should be cleaned in late spring mid summer and late fall pond bottoms should be kept as clean as possible of detritus leaves and debries.


Dave
.

 

[JohnHuff]

Ammonia 2-4 (its hard for me to read these tests)

Ammonia should not be registering with whatever test you use. If it is 2-4, then I've never seen it this high on anyone's test on GPF.

I have a 800g pond with about 20 fish under 6 inches or so. I probably have as much mechanical matting filtration as you do. In addition, I have 3 more biofilters with bioballs, K1/straws, sand/rock/stones and I constantly think about adding more. So I definitely think adding some more biofiltration would be a good idea.

Personally, I'm against adding zeolite or anything that needs to be replaced or recharged or any chemicals as I think a pond can attain a natural balance by itself with the right components.

Since you already have an air pump, consider adding a moving bed filter. There are a lot of them shown on Youtube.

 

[Dave 54]

Maybe my first post was a little too wordy.

Once a week I test water, clean filter and change water. Since the spring the ph 7.5-8.0, ammonia (doesn't register), Nitrites (doesn't register), Nitrates 10-20. Nirtrates Overtime 20-40. 40-80. I had been blaming overstocking. But recently it occurred to me to test the tap. I'm probably getting 20 out of the tap.

Then went out of town, dosed the amquel for safety. Returned to completely different test numbers. Had to get in the pond to catch the goldfish so I pulled all the lilies cut anything that was dead or looked like it was dying. Its a linear on the bottom so I can keep it pretty clean with a net. I really wasn't trying to remove the ammonia on water changes but only reasonably priced chlorine/chloramine remover is also an ammonia product. Previously I had a product that did not mention being an ammonia remover but the local store does not have it. So I was tossing that out there as a possibility for what was causing my problems.

I think you are on to something with the larger water change because of the Nitrate numbers I am getting out of my tap being so high.

I have a tetra air pump which off the box
APK-100 Air Pump

400 L/h5 watts5,000 gallons
. I usually replace my air pump every year because it seems the performance decreases a lot. Between my pump return and this it looks like a lot of air. I know thats a rather unofficial report.

Can I just order any zeolite I find on eBay or are there certain ones?

This mornings test. Note I usually test in the evening.
PH 6
Ammonia 2-4 (its hard for me to read these tests)
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 40ppm
KH umm the first drop was yellow which according to my chart is 0-50ppm. I think this is bad.
GH 10 drops which on the scale is 100-200ppm
And since I have a little attention might as well use the only other tests I have.
Phosphate 10ppm
TDS 290 from cheap electronic tester.

Thanks for everyones input.

It may be a good idea to look at the way your filtration is laid out it looks very hap-hassard from here .
What where the original diagrams of the filter like may be add some bio balls they may well help you somewhat or scrap this filter and make a couple of barrel filters .
The way our own filters are filled allows for movement of water between filter pads everything in your filter is squashed together somewhat (I know my own filters are larger than yours but it does work),,,,,

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Here is more info on the Amquel Plus http://www.kordon.com/kordon/products/water-conditioner/amquel-plus#contraindications-toxicity!

You do have to make sure your ammonia test kit is compatible with this product.

This is taken from their site:
AmQuel Plus is compatible to use with those water quality test kits on the market that are fully effective (see note below), except for the ammonia test kits that use Nessler reagents that read in shades of amber or yellow, and the oxygen test kits that use Winkler reagents. Residual AmQuel Plus and its reaction products are incompatible with the Nessler and Winkler type reagents, resulting in false, high ammonia and low oxygen concentration readings.

Ammonia test kits using Salicylate-type reagents (reading on a colorimetric scale from yellow to green to blue green) are appropriate for accurate test results.