What's the obsession with Skippys?

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JohnHuff

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I read another intro thread and it's another new pond owner building Skippys. The only reason I can think of is that the Skippy website has been there forever, there are a lot of references to it and they're easy to build.

Some of the most vital things for beneficial bacteria to grow are flow and by extension, nutrients and oxygen. Since the media of a Skippy is static media that doesn't move, sooner or later they're gonna clog up. Therefore flow will decrease and ergo whatever nutrients and oxygen will decrease with the flow. There is a good reason that waste water treatment plants do not build giant Skippys to treat their waste water.

There are many methods to get nutrients/O2 to bacteria but one of the most fundamental ideas is that the media should be constantly moving so that the flow of nutrients/O2 won't get blocked. Therefore, static media is a no-no to me.

Once you've got moving media and access to nutrients, the next thing is O2. There are some schools of thought that most O2 exchange occurs at the surface but it's easy enough to increase O2.

These methods are:
1- air pump, cons to the home ponder is that you have to add another device.
but this problem is easily solved by making your filter a:
2- shower filter
3- have the incoming stream of water fall drop onto the surface causing aeration

Really, with all the information that is available on the internet, there is no reason not to having moving media in your home filter.

I apologize in advance if I come across as a pompous know it all (please say no when replying) but the advantages of moving media is so evident I feel that I must bring it up (again).
 

addy1

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lol no pompous know it alls allowed!

What is the best moving media? I have a sort of bottom flow 55 gallon barrel filter for my shubbie tank with almost no filtering material in it, what would you recommend putting in the already buried tank...............that would move around when the water is pumping up through it (cheap), and out into the shubbie tank. I did this because the water pumped into that shubbie tank came from the big pond unfiltered. Wanted the water flowing in to have a little filtering. The shubbie tank water then flows into the big pond via a waterfall.
 
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I must agree with this because of first hand experience.

In the past, I have built filters for my fish bait tanks which were akin to skippy filters. I didn't realize the correlation at the time because I was not familiar with any names for them or their design principles. I knew that I needed to clean the water and rid it of ammonia and nitrites and keep the O2 levels up so I tried everything I could think of. Most failed miserably because the filter media became so gunked up with waste and bad bacteria that it clogged and overflowed or produced and released more toxic compounds then I was removing.

It wasn't until I stopped following the old fishermen's advice regarding how to keep bait alive and started researching ponds and aquaculture that I realized the mistakes I was making and why my previous methods were not working well for me.

A few years back I stumbled upon the Kaldness K3 media and so far I am a believer in that. Still learning other practices and refining my filter system, but the moving media seems to be the best and most effective option available. I think so especically now since I have learned that it is used for wastewater treatment plants and the effluent water is required to be potable. Obviously the process is more involved than just one simple stage of moving media, but the importance of it is made here.

My personal outlook on it is why would anyone not utilize the moving bed media? It is the most efficient and the least maintenance demanding.

Gordy
 

morewater

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I'm game for trying pretty well anything. So, if I removed my static filter mats from my bottom fed vortex 55gal filters, are you saying that all I'd need to do is replace the filter mats with those plastic jobbies, put a plastic grate over the top of them to keep them away from my outlet ports.....then I'm good to go?

Moving around like that, are they noisy? My seating area is about 18ft from the hidden filters, so I don't want to hear those plastic jobbies rattling around inside the 55gal plastic barrels.
 
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After using a 100 gallon and 70 gallon skippy as the only filtration for my pond I have noticed a few things. They have worked well for me and I know there are much better options.

My filter media does not get gunked up. When I clean the filters out once a year I note that all the gunk stays in the bottom chamber and does not get up into the media. I have three chambers (bottom, where the water comes in rotating clockwise, middle where the filter media lives, and top, where clean water overflows into my pond). I think the key is not having too much flow going into the skippy so the gunk can easily settle to the bottom while the water spins up through the media. I also have so much oxygen going down into the bottom that the water appears to boil at the top from all the air. I did this not by adding air stones, but rather have an opening at the top of the inlet pipe. This does two things, sucks air into the water as it is being pumped into the bottom of the tanks and prevents any siphoning issues back into the pond if the pumps are off.

As my only filters they have done well and improved water quality a ton compared to the no filters year. They were simple, easy to build and relatively cheap to do after the fact.
 

morewater

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That's pretty well my set up. The only truly gross part is the Fall clean out of the filters. I pressure wash the filter matts, then use the ShopVac to suck out all the muck and crap from the bottom of the 55gal plastic barrels, dump that throughout the garden, set the filter pads back up in the barrels, then put the lids on for the winter. Come Spring, I only have to turn on the pumps.......Voila, I'm up and running.

I've used D-Solv powder in the Spring for years, where you just sprinkle it all over the surface of the pond, in a few minutes all the leaves and crap miraculously floats to the top where I can scoop it all out with the pool skimmer, then suck up the rest with the PondoVac 4. Here's what the packaging looks like (see link).

http://www.canadianpondsonline.com/CrystalClear/D-Solv-p-214.html

Of course, this year Spring has been cancelled (at least for us poor, winter bedraggled Ontarians). I was ice fishing on Lake Simcoe yesterday, two miles out there was still more than 18" of ice.
 
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I don't think people build Skippy because it's easier. Maybe it seems easier to some. To me a Trickle Tower is way easier and cheaper. I think it has more to do with this being a hobby. Like asking why to people build model cars, boats, planes? Because the building is fun. And during the process you can imagine you're building the real thing which is enjoyable. Skippy is just complex enough that beginner DIYers can build one, and the result is impressive enough to show off. And you can imagine it's going to do wonderful things. Imagination is an extremely power force in humans. Drives almost everything we do. We can imagine myths into facts at the drop of a hat.

Also depends on the builder's info source. I think most builders are getting info from forums and YouTube rather the Skippy web site, at least going by volume. Links to the Skippy site are extremely rare. I. In some forums Skippy is promoted by long time members. There will be an almost complete absence of alternatives so a newbie will believe it's best. My first post in this forum suggested Skippy was a less than perfect filter and got reamed for the trouble. Don't even suggest here that bogs don't produce water cleaner than drinking water with zero DOC levels. Don't suggest in a Koi forum that a pond can have rocks or plants. Different forums promote different things. Forum gurus don't want to be questioned. They've invested years promoting themselves and old ideas. New posters with better ideas generally just move to other forums. New members are only welcomed if they tow the party line. Forums evolve a specific point of view like any clique.

The last reason is because Skippy doesn't hurt anything in most ponds. Ponds with a low enough fish load don't require any filter so adding a Skippy doesn't hurt anything. The owner can think everything right with the pond is due to their Skippy building skill. People love that and will tell others Skippy is great. Self promotion reinforces their imagination. If all ponds actually needed a bio filter we'd see fish dying with Skippy and Skippy would then go away pretty fast.

To me it makes no more sense to add a moving bed, Trickle Tower, Shower, etc., to a pond that doesn't need a bio filter than it does to add a Skippy. If ammonia is always zero with no bio filter then what does it matter what is added? If people would enjoy building a Skippy I think they should. Learning that it's not as efficient as another type of filter that's cheaper and easier to build just seems to make them mad. Lots of people never ever even test water so it makes no difference. Different people, different goals. Many people prefer to imagine what they do is the best way and really have no interest beyond reinforcing those feelings. It's easier than learning.
 

koiguy1969

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waterbug... you say..
"If all ponds actually needed a bio filter we'd see fish dying with Skippy and Skippy would then go away pretty fast."
so what your saying is, i dont need my skippy filter on my basement pond. 800gals with 230+ fish fed 2 times daily. so i can disconnect it and forget about it? because its doing nothing, that includes 5, 20" + fish.
 

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I think that when people look around for the mass-produced consumer filters......bang.....sticker shock!

I mean, really, that much for a preformed plastic shell with some inner components? It's not a nuclear reactor.
 

sissy

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Did you see the prices of those new helix filters .WOW It is like a garbage can with an inner garbage can that has holes drilled in it around the top .Not saying it is not a good idea but how many people can really afford to do that and the skimmer .Average(or cheapest ) cost for a pond done with all that stuff would be 25 thousand dollars for a nice sized pond .Sorry but that would never be in my budget .Would love if it was but never going to happen .Any filter no matter what you build is going to work and it would just matter how much money you have and how much work you put into it building it and cleaning it .Besides that you can always change your filter as budget allows .:)been there done that .All filters work ,some are just more work to clean or keep clean .But there are always ways around that too
 

morewater

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Yup, what's a couple hours over the course of a season to clean?

I think you and I should go into the pond filter mortgage business, Sissy. We'll split all the profits 60/40.
 

koiguy1969

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morewater, do you have a flushvalve on your filter? i too only clean my media once a year. a lite swish in a baby pool of pond water.
do you prefilter? i use prefilters, this minimizes the amount of debris even making it to the filter.
look i by no means claim skippy filters are best. but i know they work. and i dont need a 50 page scientific study to show me. i have used my 2 skippys, one inside, one outside since 2008. i keep hundreds of fish in my ponds. my outdoor pond is 1200gals, my indoor pond is 800gals. i feed more than a cup of food a day, even in my indoor pond. i have never had water quality issues. i have never lost a fish to anything but a heron attack. this is my experience, others may have had different. but like my daddy always said...:IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT"! so if the time ever comes to give me reason, i will consider changing my filtration. but till then,.....
 

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No flush valve, KoiGuy. There's a drain attached to the bottom of each barrel for draining, but I don't bother with it. It's easier to use the ShopVac with the garden hose attached to it for the late Fall clean-out.

As far as a prefilters.......nope......but then again, I haven't had any problems with either of my pumps clogging up.

Interestingly, I've found leeches in my filter mats.
 
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I read another intro thread and it's another new pond owner building Skippys. The only reason I can think of is that the Skippy website has been there forever, there are a lot of references to it and they're easy to build.

Some of the most vital things for beneficial bacteria to grow are flow and by extension, nutrients and oxygen. Since the media of a Skippy is static media that doesn't move, sooner or later they're gonna clog up. Therefore flow will decrease and ergo whatever nutrients and oxygen will decrease with the flow. There is a good reason that waste water treatment plants do not build giant Skippys to treat their waste water.

There are many methods to get nutrients/O2 to bacteria but one of the most fundamental ideas is that the media should be constantly moving so that the flow of nutrients/O2 won't get blocked. Therefore, static media is a no-no to me.

Once you've got moving media and access to nutrients, the next thing is O2. There are some schools of thought that most O2 exchange occurs at the surface but it's easy enough to increase O2.

These methods are:
1- air pump, cons to the home ponder is that you have to add another device.
but this problem is easily solved by making your filter a:
2- shower filter
3- have the incoming stream of water fall drop onto the surface causing aeration

Really, with all the information that is available on the internet, there is no reason not to having moving media in your home filter.

I apologize in advance if I come across as a pompous know it all (please say no when replying) but the advantages of moving media is so evident I feel that I must bring it up (again).


Great Timing for this post!!!! I was about to attempt a skippy! Please please tell exactly what is moving media? What is a shower filter?

Here is my current set up - 2200 gall new pond. About 30 fish (koi (6), goldfish (8), algae eaters and some guppies, one big tilapia). Tilapia is going bye bye once I can catch him. There is a bottom pump that pushes the water to a pressure filter with UV (bio balls, etc), then to a waterfall bucket, with quilt batting, lava rocks and the course filter media. I have quite a few plants in the pond, including water hyacinth (which I understand is a great cleaner plant - they are netted). I'm not really having any real problems with my set up (other than I pinch my fingers when I try to backwash the pressure flo, and I'm getting grossed out by all the blood worms in my quilt batting). But if there was something easier to maintain and better, then I'd be willing to move to that - currently clean this set up once a week or so. We are currently just working on the waterfall, so I could include this new filter in the set up that would be great.

Then I could use my existing equipment in a smaller pond for my boys to maintain ...... looking for an excuse to build a new pond! Lol! Addicted! And excited to learn from the experienced ponders out there!
 
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