Not sure if this has been posted before or not, but which is easier to control, String Algae or Algae Blooms? Can both be present in your pond at the same time or are they mutually exclusive?
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Which is easier to control?
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sissy
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both I have seen in my neighbors pond but after a month of quilt batting and peroxide and lots of work and my toilet bowl brush it is clean .Gotta love those toilet bowl brushes :razz:
Algae bloom way easier to control. UV 100% effective.
My own personal view is string algae and green water algae cannot exist together for very long For years now I've asked people in forums who ponds were green if they had string algae and asked when ponds went clear if string algae was present. Unfortunately it's been very difficult to get good answers. Most people can't be bothered to know or care about the difference so they have no idea and say all kind of strange stuff. But in general it seems like string algae "appears" shortly after an algae bloom. Lot's of posts say something like "well my water is finally clear, now how do I get rid of string algae". Leads me to believe the string algae was present while the water was green.
With posts that say their water was cleared and turned green its been common for them to say they have string algae. But when asked the condition of the string algae the responses lead me to believe the string algae is dead or dying. Again, very difficult to get answers, they just want the green water gone and get bugged when asked questions. Apparently in online forums it's perfectly acceptable to ask people to solve their problems but answering a question in return or even saying thanks is too much to ask.
:FIREdevil:
Streams are thought to clear green water. Normally credit is given to different things except for string algae. However there seems to always be string algae present.
Trickle towers are often given credit for cleaning green water for lots of reasons. Never once have I seen credit given to the string algae growing on the filter.
In marine research it's well known algae produce allelochemicals which kill other algae species. I don't see why this isn't possible in freshwater algae.
I did a bunch of experiments with green water and string algae. Adding string algae to green water sometimes cleared the water in less than 24 hours. Sometimes the string algae died. I was never able to grow both together. So I believe both produce allelochemicals to gain dominance.
Norm Meck showed water from a clear pond would kill green water on contact. His theory is the toxion is produced by bacteria. He never considered string algae as a source. I think it fits better than bacteria, but it could be both, maybe even in combination.
My own personal view is string algae and green water algae cannot exist together for very long For years now I've asked people in forums who ponds were green if they had string algae and asked when ponds went clear if string algae was present. Unfortunately it's been very difficult to get good answers. Most people can't be bothered to know or care about the difference so they have no idea and say all kind of strange stuff. But in general it seems like string algae "appears" shortly after an algae bloom. Lot's of posts say something like "well my water is finally clear, now how do I get rid of string algae". Leads me to believe the string algae was present while the water was green.
With posts that say their water was cleared and turned green its been common for them to say they have string algae. But when asked the condition of the string algae the responses lead me to believe the string algae is dead or dying. Again, very difficult to get answers, they just want the green water gone and get bugged when asked questions. Apparently in online forums it's perfectly acceptable to ask people to solve their problems but answering a question in return or even saying thanks is too much to ask.
:FIREdevil:
Streams are thought to clear green water. Normally credit is given to different things except for string algae. However there seems to always be string algae present.
Trickle towers are often given credit for cleaning green water for lots of reasons. Never once have I seen credit given to the string algae growing on the filter.
In marine research it's well known algae produce allelochemicals which kill other algae species. I don't see why this isn't possible in freshwater algae.
I did a bunch of experiments with green water and string algae. Adding string algae to green water sometimes cleared the water in less than 24 hours. Sometimes the string algae died. I was never able to grow both together. So I believe both produce allelochemicals to gain dominance.
Norm Meck showed water from a clear pond would kill green water on contact. His theory is the toxion is produced by bacteria. He never considered string algae as a source. I think it fits better than bacteria, but it could be both, maybe even in combination.
I had a lush thick 1" layer of algae on the walls of my pond for about a week, I woke up one morning and it was all gone, then the next morning algae bloom. I would so love to go back to those days of the blanket on my liner.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
"algae bloom" i am guessing you are talking about the planktonic algae that forms pea green water when at a heavy population. Planktonic algae is very easy to control with UV, but the water flow can not be too fast for the particular light strength of the UV; otherwise, UV will not be effective.
I would call any noticeable algae outbreak as an algae bloom.
There is a brown algae that is pretty easy to clean up. I just disturb the water a bit in the general area of the brown algae and this stuff flakes off and goes into my skimmer.
Other types of algae take a bit more work like Sissy described. Take the time to apply a chemical and/or elbow grease and the algae gets knocked back temporarily.
I would never continuously use a UV system. Planktonic algae can be useful at a healthy level since it can help compete with other types of algae. Often, I have read about pond folk experiencing a different type of algae when they finally knock back another type of algae.
You are going to have algae, period. All you can do is ask "how can you work with algae by having the algae help you instead of being an eye sore".
------
Personally ... What I have done to knock back algae, seems to work so far and we'll see by Spring of next year, is ...
1) very slow trickle water change that results into a 30% weekly water change and keeping my pH in the 7.5~7.7 range. Only trick with a big water change, either slow or not, is the potential pH swing. If you do 30% all at once, then you are likely going to notice a pH swing at some degree. Also, if ya get city water that has noticeable chlorine or chloramines, then you will need to add a water treament if ya do a big water change at once. If it is practical to ya, then I would pre-treat the water pH in a 55 gallon barrel or a bigger tank (maybe like a big cistern tank used for rain harvesting) prior to adding the water. Big water changes also helps to control other nutrients such as Phosphorus. Phosphorus is only depleted one of 3 ways; plant/algae consumption or changing water or chemical binders. I use the exiting water from the change to water my trees and flower beds, which is probably really good nutritional water for them; so, I am not just dumping the water down a drainage trench.
2) A good bio-filtration will help speed along the nitrification to hopefully keep the Ammonia less available to algae. Algae consumes ammonia directly. If there are Ammonia spikes and other appropriate nutrients available, then I think it is likely you will notice an algae bloom. This is why I think pond folk always experience algae blooms early in the year when their water is coming out of a cold spell. Most of the important bacteria hibernate or die off in cold water temperatures; so, it takes time for them to recuperate. I think this is why open air wet/dry bio-filtration such as fluidized bio-filters and trickle/shower tower bio-filters work so well since the bacteria can adjust very quickly according due to water chemistry's volatility.
3) Keep some algae growing. I am still keeping my stream algae growing, trying not to disturb it, in my streams, and I never us a UV light unless my planktonic algae becomes too heavy.
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So I guess the stream algae, big water changes, good open air wet/dry moving bio-filtration, and lower pH is helping me so far. I will just have to find out how everything works out when my water comes out of a cold spell next year. I am also thinking a phraxionator might help knock back algae by removing some disolved organics, which help create Phosphorus and other nutrients for plants/algae.
I just find it interesting how these blooms come and go. It has to happen for a reason. Water chemistry's volatility and nature's slow to react either bacteria dieing off or nutrients less available or influx of nutrients or combination causing these blooms to come and go,
---------
Easy to find an answer on how to combat algae by knocking it back, such as which UV setups work to knockback planktonic algae and which chemicals or techniques to knockback other type of algae.
It is easy to find people that will reply how particular methods "do not work on their own".
I think it is a combination of them all that is what helps to knockback algae effectively ... since everybody apparently doesn't get the special algae fighting algae or bacteria ... well, not yet, that is until it can be bought on a store shelf.
I would call any noticeable algae outbreak as an algae bloom.
There is a brown algae that is pretty easy to clean up. I just disturb the water a bit in the general area of the brown algae and this stuff flakes off and goes into my skimmer.
Other types of algae take a bit more work like Sissy described. Take the time to apply a chemical and/or elbow grease and the algae gets knocked back temporarily.
I would never continuously use a UV system. Planktonic algae can be useful at a healthy level since it can help compete with other types of algae. Often, I have read about pond folk experiencing a different type of algae when they finally knock back another type of algae.
You are going to have algae, period. All you can do is ask "how can you work with algae by having the algae help you instead of being an eye sore".
------
Personally ... What I have done to knock back algae, seems to work so far and we'll see by Spring of next year, is ...
1) very slow trickle water change that results into a 30% weekly water change and keeping my pH in the 7.5~7.7 range. Only trick with a big water change, either slow or not, is the potential pH swing. If you do 30% all at once, then you are likely going to notice a pH swing at some degree. Also, if ya get city water that has noticeable chlorine or chloramines, then you will need to add a water treament if ya do a big water change at once. If it is practical to ya, then I would pre-treat the water pH in a 55 gallon barrel or a bigger tank (maybe like a big cistern tank used for rain harvesting) prior to adding the water. Big water changes also helps to control other nutrients such as Phosphorus. Phosphorus is only depleted one of 3 ways; plant/algae consumption or changing water or chemical binders. I use the exiting water from the change to water my trees and flower beds, which is probably really good nutritional water for them; so, I am not just dumping the water down a drainage trench.
2) A good bio-filtration will help speed along the nitrification to hopefully keep the Ammonia less available to algae. Algae consumes ammonia directly. If there are Ammonia spikes and other appropriate nutrients available, then I think it is likely you will notice an algae bloom. This is why I think pond folk always experience algae blooms early in the year when their water is coming out of a cold spell. Most of the important bacteria hibernate or die off in cold water temperatures; so, it takes time for them to recuperate. I think this is why open air wet/dry bio-filtration such as fluidized bio-filters and trickle/shower tower bio-filters work so well since the bacteria can adjust very quickly according due to water chemistry's volatility.
3) Keep some algae growing. I am still keeping my stream algae growing, trying not to disturb it, in my streams, and I never us a UV light unless my planktonic algae becomes too heavy.
-------
So I guess the stream algae, big water changes, good open air wet/dry moving bio-filtration, and lower pH is helping me so far. I will just have to find out how everything works out when my water comes out of a cold spell next year. I am also thinking a phraxionator might help knock back algae by removing some disolved organics, which help create Phosphorus and other nutrients for plants/algae.
I just find it interesting how these blooms come and go. It has to happen for a reason. Water chemistry's volatility and nature's slow to react either bacteria dieing off or nutrients less available or influx of nutrients or combination causing these blooms to come and go,
---------
Easy to find an answer on how to combat algae by knocking it back, such as which UV setups work to knockback planktonic algae and which chemicals or techniques to knockback other type of algae.
It is easy to find people that will reply how particular methods "do not work on their own".
I think it is a combination of them all that is what helps to knockback algae effectively ... since everybody apparently doesn't get the special algae fighting algae or bacteria ... well, not yet, that is until it can be bought on a store shelf.
I get a kick how often it is that someone will join a forum, starts a thread asking for help with a particular question with a single post, many members try to help or answer, often with the thread going on for several pages with many different veiws sometimes resulting in a heated disscusion, and in the end nothing is ever solved, and the OP never makes another post and is never heard from again.
crsublette
coyotes call me Charles
heh, OR ... the community posts all the possible solutions to the problem and explanations that goes on several pages and then the OP asks what to do :banghead3: ; so, someone has to take all those posts and summarize it down to a couple of sentences. Argghh.
I have to admit. I was pretty shy coming to this forum since I was not for sure what to expect. Often, in other places, I would just get some dinky little paragraph, that was copied and pasted from some quick google search, only 1% of the answer would relate to my question, arrgghh. So, I would mention that I would appreciate more information and then I am told that "well, if I didn't appreciate what was already written, then why would ya 'listen' to anymore advice". :banghead3: .... heh, then it is really bad that, while during my research, I eventually find the exact same paragraph that was copied/pasted. I wish hyperlinks were given when this is done because I actually found the remainder of that particular website quite informative!! heh
I have to admit. I was pretty shy coming to this forum since I was not for sure what to expect. Often, in other places, I would just get some dinky little paragraph, that was copied and pasted from some quick google search, only 1% of the answer would relate to my question, arrgghh. So, I would mention that I would appreciate more information and then I am told that "well, if I didn't appreciate what was already written, then why would ya 'listen' to anymore advice". :banghead3: .... heh, then it is really bad that, while during my research, I eventually find the exact same paragraph that was copied/pasted. I wish hyperlinks were given when this is done because I actually found the remainder of that particular website quite informative!! heh
Thank You Waterbug, for your reply. I was not sure if it was possible to have both at the same time. I found some String algae on one of my floating planters and it seemed to be just in that planter, but I have the suspended type of algae in my pond. This Spring it was terribly green but has since turned to the brownish type. I run a makeshift Skippy but I know it is not large enough for the size of pond I have. I was quite surprised to find the string algae as well. My fish don't seem to mind nor do the frogs living in the pond. I am not looking for ways to eliminate the algae, just wanted to know if they could be found in the same pond. Because the string algae was in a planter I thought maybe that was how it was contained. I have lots of hornwort and anacharis in the pond as well as floating hyacinth and various other plants in floating planters. My pond is 3 1/2' deep and is a converted above ground 24' round pool. It probably does not qualify for a real pond, but it is all we have at this point and it was out of necessity that it was converted to a pond. I love the pond, the fountain, the spitting frog and my skippy, but mostly I love my goldfish and frogs...some of which have found the pond and stayed for the duration. I have learned so much from my pond as well as from the wonderful ponders here on this forum. As you can see, I have posted numerous questions as well as pictures and have not posted only 1 question and left. I do appreciate your informational reply.
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:goldfish:
callingcolleen1
mad hatter
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I have never seen a pond that has both string algae and pea green water. All ponds will get some type of algae eventually, that's a given. I did have some string algae early in the year, before the plants were up to " full speed". I just gently weeded my pond of the string algae as I would a garden, some by hand in the hornwort, until the hornwort turned into a large underwater bush and strangled the sting algae out. Having a pond is like having a garden, there will be some "weeding" required!
Shoestring you have a nice day!
Shoestring you have a nice day!