Why would you not vote for Trump or Clinton be specific.

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morewater

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So far this has been a contest between Trump and the media, instead of between Trump and Clinton.:cautious:

It's a half-time show, inspired by the media that pits one segment of a nation against the other.

It's sad to watch, and frankly, is getting boring and repetitive.

Trump's got a big mouth, big enough to get both of his own feet in there at once.
 
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I love Donald Trump and he is always right. He speaks his mind and tells it like it really is. I wish I could go to one of his high energy rallies. Donald is so darn awesome. :)

I don't trust him, but he scares me less than Hillary.

Hillary is a criminal who has been committing crimes, including murder for a very very long time all for personal gain. She is one of the most evil people I have seen in the public eye. I don't have the same feelings about Bill, in fact I think he is probably a good person at heart.

But I am confident that neither Hillary or Trump will change the direction our country is going in. Without a change in the hearts of the people we are doomed regardless of the faces in Washington.

We want everything free, we want convenience, no matter what we sacrifice for it. We are willing to hand over our freedom and our morals for instant gratification. Our politicians wont change until we do and we aren't changing.
 

morewater

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I love Donald Trump and he is always right. He speaks his mind and tells it like it really is. I wish I could go to one of his high energy rallies. Donald is so darn awesome. :)

Yup, he's always right.

After all, all Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers.
When Obama was a senator from Illinois, he founded ISIS.
When the HildaBeast was a congresswoman from New York, she helped Obama found ISIS.

Trump did say that he loves the uneducated, however.

And he's already started talking about how if he doesn't win, that it's all rigged.

Yup, that's just the sort of trigger-finger mouth that you need representing your country on the World stage.

Don't worry, my vote doesn't count. I'm Canadian (phew).
 
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Yup, he's always right.

After all, all Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers.
When Obama was a senator from Illinois, he founded ISIS.
When the HildaBeast was a congresswoman from New York, she helped Obama found ISIS.

Trump did say that he loves the uneducated, however.

And he's already started talking about how if he doesn't win, that it's all rigged.

Yup, that's just the sort of trigger-finger mouth that you need representing your country on the World stage.

Don't worry, my vote doesn't count. I'm Canadian (phew).

I am no fan of Trump and surly don't trust him, but your comments are the talking points fed to us by the media, almost word for word. I trust the media about as much as I trust a politician as all they are are the propaganda machines for the right and left.
 

morewater

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Nah, I just quoted the Trumpmeister on what he's actually said. I've seen him on TV and I've seen him say it.

Unless it was a really great impersonator, I'm quite sure that it was The Duck (Donald).
 

morewater

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You guys have had some real doozies down there in the good old US of A.

I remember George Bush saying that most of Americas imports come from other countries,

I remember the hottie (Sarah Palin) saying that she was qualified to deal with Russia because she could see Russia from her back yard.

You can't make this stuff up.
 

j.w

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Trump's words on Mexicans have been misconstrued by all sides. This liberal, Puerto Rican professor says enough
Alberto A. Martinez
It’s time to start cleaning up the mess of misinterpretations about Donald Trump.

Back in June, I first saw Mr. Trump announcing his candidacy for president. What he said about unauthorized immigrants seemed ridiculous so I laughed. I showed the video to friends, and I laughed again. His words were poorly chosen.

But something worse happened. People interpreted Trump’s words in the most awful and offensive ways.

In one of my courses, at the University of Texas at Austin, I asked my students: “What has Donald Trump said that you found most offensive?” One student raised her hand high: “He said that all Mexicans are rapists.” I asked a coworker the same question. He replied: “He said that all Mexican immigrants are rapists.”

I explained that Trump said no such thing. This is what Trump said:

“When do we beat Mexico at the border? They’re laughing at us, at our stupidity. […] When Mexico sends its people they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you; they’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people. But I speak to border guards and they tell us what we’re getting.”

You might well dislike Trump’s words. I did. But let’s not make it worse. He did not say that all Mexicans are rapists. Yet that’s what many commentators did. For example, Politico misquoted Trump by omitting his phrase about “good people.” They said he was “demonizing Mexicans as rapists.” They argued that Mexicans do not really commit more rapes in the U.S. than whites. But that’s not what Trump claimed.

Similarly, other news sources misrepresented his words in offensive ways:

The New York Times: “Trump’s claim that illegal Mexican immigrants are ‘rapists.”

Time Magazine: “Trump’s comment that Mexican immigrants are ‘rapists.’”

Associated Press: “Trump called Mexican immigrants rapists and criminals”

CBS News: “Trump defends calling Mexican immigrants ‘rapists.’”

L.A. Times: “describing Mexican immigrants as ‘rapists.’”

Fortune: “in a speech branding Mexican immigrants as criminals and rapists.”

Hollywood Reporter: “he referred to Mexican immigrants as ‘rapists.’”

Huffington Post: “He called Latino immigrants ‘criminals’ and ‘rapists.’”

The Washington Post: “He referred to Mexicans as “rapists.”

Compare such words with Trump’s words. Which is worse? Writers excerpted the phrase: “they’re rapists,” as if it were about all Mexican unauthorized immigrants, or worse, about all Mexican immigrants, or even worst, about all Mexicans. But that’s not what he said. That’s not what he meant. It was just a remark about some of the criminals crossing the border.

The trick for misrepresenting Trump’s words can be used against anyone.

For example, on October 7, at a Democratic debate, Hillary Clinton answered the question: “Which enemy are you most proud of?” She replied: “In addition to the NRA, um, the health insurance companies, the drug companies, um, the Iranians.”

If you do to her what the media did to Trump, then you should believe that Hillary Clinton is proud to be the enemy of 77 million citizens of Iran, plus millions more living outside Iran, including mothers, children, and disabled people. But that’s not what she meant.

On November 6, at the MSNBC Democratic Candidates Forum, Bernie Sanders said: “we have to pass a constitutional amendment that everyone in America who is 18 years old or older is registered to vote.” He said everyone. Someone might then write: “He proposed that everyone who is in the U.S. should vote, everyone who is 18, even illegal immigrants, tourists, and terrorists.” But that’s not what he meant.

It is no wonder that many people think the media is grossly dishonest. No wonder Mr. Trump’s critiques of the media make his followers cheer.

Trump was discussing crimes committed by unauthorized immigrants. Is it true that some people who illegally cross the border from Mexico are good? Yes. Is it true that some others commit crimes? Yes. Is that a problem? People disagree. Some conjecture that unauthorized immigrants don’t commit more crimes than U.S. citizens. But crimes by unauthorized immigrants, even murders, would not have happened if those individuals had not entered the U.S.

Time for a disclosure. I was born and raised in Puerto Rico. Spanish is my first language. I voted for Obama. I live in liberal Austin, Texas, where I work as a tenured professor of history. I’ve never voted for a Republican. My preferred candidate for U.S. president would be Elizabeth Warren. Since she is not running, my preferred candidate is Bernie Sanders.

Anyhow, discussions about illegal immigration are ruined by lack of data. I asked my friends, university faculty: “How many people do you think are deported per year in the U.S.?”

There are two kinds of deportations: some are caught near the border and “returned,” others are “removed” by a court order. Consider the border patrol agents, personnel, the bureaucracy, the lawyers, the resources needed to find people and deport them. How many were deported in 2014?

One of my friends guessed 3,000. Another guessed 10,000. Another guessed 50,000—which would really be a lot of people, imagine.

Actually, in fiscal year 2014, the U.S. deported a total of 893,238 foreigners! That’s a huge number. It includes 577,295 deported by the Department of Homeland Security, plus 315,943 deported by Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Among the latter, 2,802 were classified as suspected or confirmed gang members.

Since 1990, the average is 1.2 million deportations per year. The highest in U.S. history was 1.86 million foreigners deported in the year 2000. That’s astonishing.

How many were criminals?

We don’t know because most criminals are not caught. Plus, many who are accused are not convicted because of a lack of evidence. Still, in 2014, the U.S. deported 177,960 convicted criminals. Surprisingly, 91,037 were already convicted criminals before they even entered the U.S.

At the University of Texas at Austin, the football stadium can seat 100,119 people. I have seen it full. I’ve see more than 100,000 people at once—it’s an incredible sight. It’s a staggering swarm of people. I have seen them yelling all at once.


It is utterly astonishing to me that this stadium would fail to seat all the convicted criminals deported in a single year.

Back to Mr. Trump. Did he unfairly single out Mexicans when complaining about crimes by unauthorized immigrants?

By far, most Mexicans are good people. However, since Mexico shares a large frontier with the U.S., and many Mexicans face economic hardships, most of the reported illegal immigration into the U.S. is from Mexico. Accordingly, in recent years roughly 76% of criminal unauthorized immigrants are from Mexico.

What kinds of crime? It is strangely difficult to find national statistics on homicides, sexual assaults, and thefts, by unauthorized immigrants. But there is relevant data for some states.

The Texas Department of Public Safety identified 207,076 foreign aliens who were booked into Texas county jails from October 2008 through August 1, 2014. Their term “foreign aliens” includes both foreigners who are in Texas legally and foreigners who entered illegally. They were accused of 357,884 crimes in those 70 months, including these charges: 4,413 terroristic threats, 60,973 robberies and larcenies, 6,636 vehicle thefts, 78,682 assaults, 12,869 sexual assaults and offenses, 1,113 kidnapping, and 3,089 homicides.

That includes, an average of 1,383 charges of sexual assaults per year, in Texas alone. The real number of rapes and sexual assaults is larger since many victims do not report these crimes. According to the National Crime and Victimization Survey, 2008-2012, approximately 68% of sexual assault crimes are not reported. So I estimate that foreigners commit roughly 4,000 sexual assaults in Texas each year.

In Texas, roughly 529 foreigners per year were accused of committing murder. Plus, the FBI reports that 36% of homicides nationwide remain unsolved.

These crime rates are staggering and offensive. None of the women and men who were killed in by unauthorized immigrants in Texas would have died if the murderers had not entered the U.S. illegally.

These are not just words. Pause for a moment to think about a Texas woman whose husband was murdered one night. Think about parents who never saw their son again because he was murdered. Think of the thousands of families standing at the cemeteries.

I’ve only summarized murders and sexual assaults. Consider drugs and drug violence. According to the Drug Enforcement Administration, most illegal drugs come from Mexico, including most cocaine and heroine. Most methamphetamines also are smuggled from Mexico. The 2015 National Drug Threat Survey finds that methamphetamines are the drugs that most contribute to property crimes and violent crimes. You get the point. There are tremendous problems of drugs, murders, and rapes caused at the porous border.

Without knowing the data, it was easy to be offended by Mr. Trump’s crude words when he announced his candidacy. However, seeing the data above, I understand his concerns.

Here’s what Trump said right after his words quoted above:

“And it only makes common sense, it only makes common sense: they’re sending us not the right people, and it’s coming from more than Mexico, it’s coming from all over South and Latin America, and it’s coming probably, probably from the Middle East. But we don’t know because we have no protection, and we have no competence. We don’t know what’s happening. And it’s gotta stop. And it’s gotta stop fast.”


We can disagree about some points. Is the Mexican government really sending criminals to the U.S.? On July 5, Trump said: “The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.” This claim might be false if Mexico does not intentionally send criminals to the US. At its best, this statement seems plausible if Trump meant that conditions generated in Mexico by its government lead some criminals to the U.S.

In any case, Trump proposes to secure the southern border by implementing various security measures. His most recurring proposal is to build a wall, along areas of the border lacking natural barriers.

His proposal has been widely criticized. Some people construed it as a sign of racism, xenophobia, etc. However, I can understand why many of Trump’s followers actually cheer: “Build the Wall! Build the Wall!”

First, there are the worries about murders, drugs, crimes, and terrorism. Presently, countless many unauthorized immigrants walk into the country, unchecked. In fiscal year 2014, the Border Patrol made 468,407 apprehensions along the southwest border. By comparison, the Border Patrol only made 18,244 apprehensions in all other regions.

But one point sticks in my mind. Namely this: there already exist a long series of fences and walls between Mexico and the U.S. These fences and walls span parts of California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. As of early 2012, the Department of Homeland Security had completed 652 miles of fences and walls. Trump did not build all that. It was mandated by Congress. Walls are common along many countries’ borders, such as Spain, China, France, Greece, Pakistan, Israel, etc. The border between the U.S. and Mexico spans roughly 1,950 miles. Trump wants a wall that will be 1,000 miles long, including areas already covered.

I’m not trying to convince you about a wall. My point is just that it’s neither impossible nor ridiculous. A main reason why many border areas have fences instead of walls is just that walls are more expensive.

Trump says that everyone who didn’t enter the U.S. legally should return to their countries. “They have to go.” We might well disagree. But his view is closer to Immigration law. If you prefer amnesty then lawmakers have to create a law to that effect. Trump insists: “I want people to come in, but they have to come in legally.”

Regardless, countless many people think that Trump is racist against Mexicans. I suggest that anyone who thinks that should count how many times Trump has praised Mexicans.



Most unauthorized immigrants are good people. But still, the media wrongly blamed Mr. Trump for their own misrepresentations.
 

Meyer Jordan

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They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.

I have seen no misrepresentation of this comment by 'The Donald'. He did not say the 'SOME' had problems, or that 'SOME' were bringing drugs, or that 'SOME' were bringing crime, or that 'SOME' were rapists. No, he reserved use of this limiting adjective to describe the good ones...he 'ASSUMED'. In politics one must choose their words very carefully, otherwise the listeners will hear what you say and maybe not what you think....or maybe it is what you think.
 

j.w

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@Meyer Jordan He is talking about people coming across the border illegally so why would one not think they might be coming to do other illegal crimes?
If they are in hiding and trying to cover up being here how do we know which ones are bringing drugs, raping etc. If they all applied like they were supposed to then we could do a check on them and see if they qualify to be here. But no they want to come here and get all the benefits and take away from those who have done things the legal way. Trump may not always say everything in the most grammatically correct way and he even admits to that. Why can't he be allowed to correct himself when he speaks on an issue and tell you what he believes? The liberal media can't wait to jump on him if he makes the slightest comment that they can twist into something that was not meant to do harm against every person in that group of people. I believe he cares about human beings, all of them and wants to do right by them as long as they do things the legal way and why on earth shouldn't they?
 

Meyer Jordan

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Why can't he be allowed to correct himself when he speaks on an issue and tell you what he believes?

He is allowed to correct himself, but he doesn't. Of all his twitter traffic, he has not further explained any statement that he has made, but rather he diverts the attention to others by the use of juvenile name calling and preferring to place the blame on others for his missteps.
Don't misinterpret my comments. I think both candidates leave a lot to be desired and if the USA can't produce better choices than this then maybe it says something about us.
 
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Good negotiators start with an extreme position and then scale it down from there.
I don't think most people understand that.

If you want better deals with NATO, China, Russia, ect., that's what it will take.

Trump will upset the status quo. Wall Street banks and Corporations understand that so they are pulling out all the stops and leaning on all the media contacts they have to try and stop him. That only makes him more appealing to people that do not have the money and power to take out ads against him.

Remember the Brexit vote? Yeah, neither do I. The banks predicted the end of the world, now the markets are near record highs.
The banks are predicting the end of the world with Trump now too.
Some countries somewhere are going to have to write off a ton of debt sooner or later. Isn't it better to tackle the problem now, when you can control it, instead of waiting and having it get out of control?

.
 
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I also find it quite interesting that Hillary has not held a news conference for 265 days.
She is getting a free pass from the media, no doubt.
 
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"After all, all Mexicans are rapists and drug dealers."

Actually he never said this. He did talk about the drug dealers and rapists but did not say they were all like that. The proof is out there as far as the amount of crime committed by non citizens. This is not reported on because it backs up his assertions. Let the press give each candidate a fair shake and let the voters decide. Look what comes up when you do a search
https://www.google.com/#q=crime+statistics+among+illegal+immigrants

If you read what the main stream media is saying it seems like aliens are not a problem at all.

now look at the official statistics(the ones that are caught and convicted)
https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_citizenship.jsp
 
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j.w

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I hope Trump can get in! I'd rather have him any day than Hillary.
All these people that want to allow illegal's to come in and we can't even cross the Canadian border w/o our credentials anymore! Mexico will allow us to cross over by land w/o anything but then why wouldn't they? They want our money and the thugs along the road will try and get it from you any way they can. Ask @Bullfrog as he moved there and drove through and they tried to stop his rig and rob him! Lets send the media over to Mexico by land and let them try and survive all on their own!
 
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