Wild fish found in Koi Pond

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by Camperpond, Oct 10, 2012.

  1. Camperpond

    Camperpond

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    Hello all, I have a small garden pond about 100 gallons or so with a small water fall feeding it. Unfortunately I do not have any pictures to share at the moment so I'll post some later. This pond is located on a seasonal campsite I stay at during the summers. Since there is not any power available during the winter, I bring my fish home and keep them in fish tank where I can enjoy them.

    This past summer I started up the pond with a prize 7" butterfly Koi and a 4" Gold fish. About half way through the season my prize Koi became dinner for a raccoon. When I added a new koi to replace it I discovered 5 very small (`1") wild fish in the pond. Note, my liitle pond is about a 1/2 mile from the closest natural pond in the middle of the woods. Does anyone have any idea how they got there? I havent positively identified what these fish are yet. I have never seen any water fowl and have never introduced any wild vegetation. The second question is do any of you recognize these fish? I'm guessing common carp? They are in my fish tank now, sorry for the poor resolution. IMG00238-20121009-0707.jpg
     
    Camperpond, Oct 10, 2012
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  2. Camperpond

    sissy sissy

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    Could you have brought the eggs in on a plant .I have never really seen a common carp but have to say it is a pretty fish
     
    sissy, Oct 10, 2012
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  3. Camperpond

    Camperpond

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    Thanks Sissy, I have transplanted lilly's in previous years, though I have not brought any plants in this summer. Each spring I completely clean the pond down to the rubber lining before moving my fish back, so they could'nt be survivors from past seasons.
     
    Camperpond, Oct 10, 2012
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  4. Camperpond

    sissy sissy

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    Well he looks big so he is sure not a baby fish .Where do you put your lilies in the winter .Could some one have brought him over and put him in your pond .Meaning is there easy access to your pond .I have babies now but they are only and inch long and not sure what they are yet ,koi or goldfish or a combo of them .If they are an inch long they could be from this year and maybe the fish you had spawned and you did not see them at first .I know I did not know I had babies until last week .They hid out so they would not get eaten by the other fish
     
    sissy, Oct 10, 2012
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  5. Camperpond

    Dave 54

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    To me that is not a wild Carp its a ghost koi probably you may have had a spawning which I doubt or someone has put it in your campsight pond .
    The true wild carp have the large doitsu scales which is how the Japanses started the doitsu strain after being given one or two by the Germans back in the mists of time looks a nice healthy koi though.
    Do you have any photos of the babies ?

    rgrds

    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Oct 10, 2012
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  6. Camperpond

    Craig58

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    Kind of looks like a goldfish to me. Probably a "Mule". It is very possible your Koi and goldfish mated before your nighttime visitor carted the Koi away. This isn't unusal and the resultant babies are usually sterile. A 7" Koi and a 4" goldfish are certainly big enough to bred. One inch in size would be about right for a babies born in a small pond this past spring/summer.

    http://www.aquameds....e?article_id=30

    Craig
     
    Craig58, Oct 10, 2012
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  7. Camperpond

    sissy sissy

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    I thought the fish in the pic was bigger but you said 1 inch ,but he sure looks bigger than 1 inch .I know usually all my babies lately are white with a little gold but in past years they were mostly black .Well guessing your pond is restocked now with new babies .I know a couple of years ago I brought home pond plants from the koi farm and there were fish in where the guy had the plants and there must have been eggs in there and I found baby fish in my stock tank and could not figure out where they came from until I thought back .
     
    sissy, Oct 10, 2012
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  8. Camperpond

    Camperpond

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    Sissy, the picture is deceiving, this is the largest although it is only about 1 1/2 inches. Can koi and goldfish cross produce? All that was in the pond was a butterfly koi, and a goldfish. Both were probably old enough to spawn, although I didnt think they could cross produce. Oh, the lilly's just died off with winter and were removed when the pond was cleaned.

    If they can cross produce, then that is probably the answer.

    Dave, the pond is accessible though somewhat isolated, also, due to the size of the fish when first discovered (
     
    Camperpond, Oct 10, 2012
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  9. Camperpond

    Craig58

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    Don't expect much, if any color in these babies if they are crosses.

    Craig
     
    Craig58, Oct 10, 2012
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  10. Camperpond

    Camperpond

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    Well, you have solved my mystery and educated me at the same time.

    Craig, thanks for sharing your construction pics, that was also very informative.
     
    Camperpond, Oct 10, 2012
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  11. Camperpond

    JohnHuff Friends call me Dr. Sir John Huff

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    They could be your fishes' babies. Babies are born a drab color for camouflage. When they get bigger they'll get their normal colors.
     
    JohnHuff, Oct 10, 2012
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  12. Camperpond

    Dave 54

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    if you look at the face you can see barbles the koi also has a different face i;e it has a dip which makes up the nose which says koi I
    Look at the dorsal fin its a dead givaway it's not a goldfish's dorsal the same as the tail fin the whole thing says koi not a cross breed meaning it isn't a mule .
    I have a ghostie in my pond who is exactly the same it sounds to me as though your koi have been doing naughties and some fry have survived, congratulations your a fishy parent :LOL:

    rgrds

    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Oct 10, 2012
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  13. Camperpond

    Craig58

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    Dave,

    She only had one Koi in the pond at any given time. It takes two to tango.

    If it's a Koi, (I'm not sure I see barbies on the face myself), then five fertilized Koi eggs must have some how snuck in on something else into the pond.

    Unless you believe in fish immaculate conception!

    Craig
     
    Craig58, Oct 10, 2012
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  14. Camperpond

    capewind

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    Just like human kids, sometimes they look more like one parent or the other (my youngest is all out daddy's girl, but I do remember the delivery, so I dont need a paternity test to know she is mine LOL). A little birdie isnt going to drop 5 babies, unless eggs on a twig/plant, and that is a hard sell. I am thinking your fishy family was conceived before the tragic kidnapping of your koi.
     
    capewind, Oct 10, 2012
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  15. Camperpond

    Dave 54

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    I had a trawl through ebay here in the UK for Ghost koi that where up for sale and found this photo of a bowl full of them.
    As you can see they are exactly the same as the ones posted in the original Photo koi unlike goldfish are stuck with the colour they are born with so there should be little change in the colour of this one .
    The facial features are exactly the same .




    mkHOCr5V2er-mQw_FkfWdMg.jpg


    rgrds

    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Oct 10, 2012
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  16. Camperpond

    CountryEscape

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    Not sure if these pics will help at all, but since the topic is open here, I'd like more opinions!
    I had babies last year in my koi/goldfish pond, and pretty sure they were all goldfish. I think I'd better look at some of them closer though to be sure. This year, I moved as many of the goldfish as I could catch to the new goldfish only pond, but there were still about 6 I could not catch. The big orange koi spawned, I saw her get chased, but never saw for sure when she spawned, so don't know who fertilized the eggs ... or ate them! I had more goldfish babies, or probably they were already born, just hiding, so now have more to move.
    The first pic is a goldfish that I caught and moved. It's not a good pic, taking in a 2 qt measuring bowl, but this is a baby from this year, in August. It was about 3-4" long already (my koi pond where it was born is over 4,000 gal.).
    Baby goldfish.JPG
    These next pics are of one of the 4 fish that I was pretty sure were koi babies, and confirmed this one has whiskers. I have no idea if they are koi or cross with the goldfish, but am hoping they are koi.
    Baby koi has whiskers.JPG Orange head baby koi.JPG Koi face.JPG
    In this pic you can see a koi on the left that is dark (almost black) and has orange on his head. I'm wondering if this may be the dad, as the solid orange female in the second pic I know was being chased, so likely the mom.
    Possible Daddy 2.JPG Bright orange female.JPG
    All the babies are similarly marked to this black and orange koi (I also have one identical, but more yellow/orange on the head - they are the "twins").
    I'd like an opinion as to whether the baby I'm calling a koi looks like a koi, or goi (goldfish/koi cross). It doesn't matter to me, but am just curious. :)
     
    CountryEscape, Oct 11, 2012
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  17. Camperpond

    Craig58

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    Whiskers = koi
    Without whiskers = goldfish or cross

    If the OP can simply tell us firsthand if the 1-1.5" babies have whiskers or not, the issue will be resolved.

    With whiskers, the fish stork dropped off 5 fertilized eggs into your pond.
    Without whiskers, your Butterfly and goldfish made whoopie.

    I can't tell one way or the other from the posted pic.

    Country - first pic is a goldfish. Second pic is a koi.

    Craig

    PS> I have ghost koi. Considered chagoi here. Some purists don't consider them "real" koi. Kind of like butterflies. But our's are the friendliest fish in the pond and are among our favorites.
     
    Craig58, Oct 11, 2012
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  18. Camperpond

    Craig58

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    Dave,

    I don't believe the fish in the original pic has any gold or highlights on it. The rock behind it is yellow/gold. I believe any color you see is mostly a factor of the lighting from the picture/flash/aquarium lights. It is probably almost all black or brown.

    Your comment about Koi being stuck with there color is untrue. Koi often change color. I have one that loses it black when the temperature drops! I don't collect high end koi and as such know firsthand that many reds fade. I have ghost koi that is mostly black but when the temps go up the black fades and yellow/gold highlights come through. I have a white koi that was similar to a sanke but the red is now almost all gone except for about a 1/8" spot.

    Craig
     
    Craig58, Oct 11, 2012
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  19. Camperpond

    callingcolleen1 mad hatter

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    Someone in your pond was very busy "making waves" one "hot steamy night" and little fishes were made. You'll have to do a DNA test to find the babies daddy, these things just happen! :)
     
    callingcolleen1, Oct 11, 2012
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  20. Camperpond

    Dave 54

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    My comment was about the fish we were talking about i;e the ghost koi and not koi Carp propper.
    We have one that is still the same colour as it was born with being closer to the original Carp having the drab colouring of a wild Carp the one we still have it's face is the same colour as the one that sparked this thread......
    High end koi as you call them do change colour yes that I'm totally in agreement with you on that point.
    They have been bred for this over generstions by those koi master breeders in Japan, laterly in Israel and other countrys including the UK and US all of which are catching up with the masters with some stunning koi of their own.
    Interstingly you can only alter the Red or Hi and tone up the white , the black or sumi is a fixed colour that cannot b altered.it will only grow to the boundry set out in the koi and no more
    This can be done best by feeding your koi King Tiger Prawns or food rich in ceratine which serves to deepen the Hi , the white is best given a beautiful lustre by feeding them silk worm pupea or pellets made from the silk worm pupea
    Ghost koi are almost often found four sale in Garden Centres and the Tropical fish outlets you will not see them in a koi dealership,
    Many koi keepers regard the ghost as the koi no self respecting koi keepinf purist would own.
    But at the same time conveniately forgetting that these are the Carp that we broke our teeth on before falling in love with Koi Carp propper.moving on to those living jewels called koi carp
    Goldfish however ditch the black they were born with and become goldfish propper unless you are black moor who in adult life seem to start changing colour away from the black , I know not why .
    Strange is it that the face is the only thing to reflect yellow in the original Photo why not the rest of the fish especially the dorsal, pectoral, pelvic anal and tail fins.
    We will have to wait and see what comes out on the face i;e barbles .

    rgrds

    Dave
     
    Dave 54, Oct 11, 2012
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