Winter’s Effect On Koi, Goldfish, and Ponds by Richard E. Carlson


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Meyer Jordan

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Do you happen to know the date that this article was published?
Not only does the author contradict himself within the article, but many of his statements are completely outdated with more recent research reaching different conclusions.
 
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Do you happen to know the date that this article was published?
Not only does the author contradict himself within the article, but many of his statements are completely outdated with more recent research reaching different conclusions.

thank you so much for your input. it seemed scholarly from my limited experience.
it appears the article was published in 2010.
can you direct us to other articles outlining the effects of winters onset through spring in the detail that was presented?
it would be greatly appreciated.
 

Meyer Jordan

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thank you so much for your input. it seemed scholarly from my limited experience.
it appears the article was published in 2010.
can you direct us to other articles outlining the effects of winters onset through spring in the detail that was presented?
it would be greatly appreciated.

The internet is full of pond related sites that contain articles on all aspects of pond husbandry. Problem is most contain outdated information or information based on anecdotal sources rather than scientific research. This is why there is so much contradictory information available.
Within this very article is a prime example. The author states:
"......What this tells us is that the biological nitrification processes continue even during the coldest water conditions. This is an important fact to remember as those ponders who keep their filters running all winter will retain a significant level of biological nitrification processing throughout the winter and will see no accumulation of ammonia or nitrites while the fish are “under the ice.” "
Yet in the very next section, the author starts to refute this statement with:
"At 62 degrees, the activity of the nitrosomonas bacteria begins to reduce significantly. The effect of this, of course, is a reduced ability for the filter system to manage the conversion of ammonia to nitrites,....."
and then:
"At 55 degrees, the nitrifying bacteria in our filters begin to die off as well, although they will not be completely gone until about 42 degrees F. The effect of this is that our filters begin to loose the ability to eliminate nitrites."

Both assertions can not be correct. But which one is the correct statement? How is the hobbyist reader to know? The author does not cite any sources for his information. If he did, even he might have seen the contradiction and performed the necessary editing before publishing this article.
 
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We don't "feed" our fish from mid to late October until late April or early May. But every spring they are larger than they were going in to winter, so we know they are eating something down there!

We're having a warm fall, so the fish are still active and hungry, but cooler days (and nights) this week will slow them down.
 
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sissy

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I noticed yesterday while looking at my pond that the fish have already stripped the liner clean of all the good muck they like to eat over winter .I feed depending on water temps. and we don't get that cold and pond is near septic tank so it gets heat from it .I guess feeding depends on where you live and what the winters are like from one year to the next .Last year was a mild winter for most of us and then around Feb. we paid for the mild winter .Not sure what this winter will be like .
 

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I noticed yesterday while looking at my pond that the fish have already stripped the liner clean of all the good muck they like to eat over winter .I feed depending on water temps. and we don't get that cold and pond is near septic tank so it gets heat from it .I guess feeding depends on where you live and what the winters are like from one year to the next .Last year was a mild winter for most of us and then around Feb. we paid for the mild winter .Not sure what this winter will be like .

Dont worry.. my AstroFish (that would be my red-white bubble eye goldfish) says it's gonnna get cold fast!!!

But not to worry about him cause in addition to his Precognition powers, he has the power to become invisible when no one is looking at him, and the power to teleport to the exact same location where he is.
 

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sissy

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I am going to have to wait until next year to replace the liner again .They guy went missing who said he was going to pay for the liner that the dog sliced .But my camera did pick him up taking his dog away and I have his name He turned his cell phone off
 

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......

Yet in the very next section, the author starts to refute this statement with:
"At 62 degrees, the activity of the nitrosomonas bacteria begins to reduce significantly. The effect of this, of course, is a reduced ability for the filter system to manage the conversion of ammonia to nitrites,....."
and then:
"At 55 degrees, the nitrifying bacteria in our filters begin to die off as well, although they will not be completely gone until about 42 degrees F. The effect of this is that our filters begin to loose the ability to eliminate nitrites."

Both assertions can not be correct. But which one is the correct statement? How is the hobbyist reader to know? The author does not cite any sources for his information. If he did, even he might have seen the contradiction and performed the necessary editing before publishing this article.

Arguing for the sake of arguing... Nitrosomonas bacteria is not the same as Nitrifying bacteria and they can survive different temperature ranges is what is sounds like in those two statements.
 

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Arguing for the sake of arguing... Nitrosomonas bacteria is not the same as Nitrifying bacteria and they can survive different temperature ranges is what is sounds like in those two statements.

Where did you read that?

Nitrosomonas is a nitrifying bacteria along with Nitrospira, Nitrobacter, Nitrospina, Nitrosococcus, and Nitrotoga among others. Each has its preference of temperature. Some continue to oxidize at a temperatures of 5C, Nitrotoga as low as 1C.
 
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Where did you read that?

Nitrosomonas is a nitrifying bacteria along with Nitrospira, Nitrobacter, Nitrospina, Nitrosococcus, and Nitrotoga among others. Each has its preference of temperature. Some continue to oxidize at a temperatures of 5C, Nitrotoga as low as 1C.

Well that's interesting then.. may be he believes that most of the Ammonia to nitrites stop at 62F and most nitrites to nitrates at 55F? I wont claim knowledge of these types of bacteria... that's just how i read what he said.
 

Meyer Jordan

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Well that's interesting then.. may be he believes that most of the Ammonia to nitrites stop at 62F and most nitrites to nitrates at 55F? I wont claim knowledge of these types of bacteria... that's just how i read what he said.

I actually believe that the author did a 'copy and paste' on much of this article.
The statement concerning bacteria in WWTP (Waste Water Treatment Plants) is correct. These facilities must be able to operate year-round. The simple fact that they are able to do this proves that nitrifying bacteria function at extremely low temperatures. Granted their efficiency at oxidizing Ammonia and Nitrite is greatly reduced but they will still function at 5% to 20% efficiency at temperatures as low as 5C.
This chart displays how this is fairly constant regardless of environment.
Nitrification effect of temperature.jpg

Considering the fact that Ammonia production is also severely reduced at these temperatures Ammonia and Nitrite build-up is not likely to occur.
 

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I actually believe that the author did a 'copy and paste' on much of this article.
The statement concerning bacteria in WWTP (Waste Water Treatment Plants) is correct. These facilities must be able to operate year-round. The simple fact that they are able to do this proves that nitrifying bacteria function at extremely low temperatures. Granted their efficiency at oxidizing Ammonia and Nitrite is greatly reduced but they will still function at 5% to 20% efficiency at temperatures as low as 5C.
This chart displays how this is fairly constant regardless of environment.
View attachment 95792
Considering the fact that Ammonia production is also severely reduced at these temperatures Ammonia and Nitrite build-up is not likely to occur.


Kind of what I've just believed all along, the processes may be ongoing but they have slowed to such a degree that they're chances of hitting harmful levels is greatly diminished. No scientific evidence to back it up, just a gut feeling I've had since having my pond. Biggest issue for me is lack of oxygen if my fish loads were too high going into winter.
 
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While most of the denitrifaction bacteria poop-out in the cold water, other bacteria like anaerobic bacteria can and do continue to digest wastes and release both methane and hydrogen sulphide gasses which can be very toxic to life. That's the reason the sludge we scoop out in the spring stinks so bad.
denitrifcating bacteria tend to follow these kinetics;
P = 0.25T^2,
P = Percent of denitrifying bacteria growth rate at 20°C,
T = Temperature, °C
so at minimum water temperature at the bottom, 4°C the bacteria would, be working at 1%, I don't buy the idea the bacteria "die" at any particular low temperature, they just go into near dormancy; some reactivate faster than others and have different kinetics.
 

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