Wisconsin Pond Build

Discussion in 'Garden Pond Photography' started by herzausstahl, Jul 12, 2011.

  1. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    I was gonna post this in the pond show case but then no one would be able to comment on it (and good or bad) that's the reason most of us are on here to share ideas. The pond will be built at the bottom of gentle slope. My zone is right between 4 and 5. Check my intro thread for any further info. Now on to the build. First pic is the site and the second is the beginning of my dig.
     

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    herzausstahl, Jul 12, 2011
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  2. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    This first pic shows the first of three boulders I found in the top foot of soil. It is soil on top and then clay the rest of the way from there. The second pic shows another boulder found as I began digging the upper pond border. And the third photo shows the pond edge done and the beginning of the slope to the first pond ledge. I am putting in a ledge about 8-12 inches below the surface so the border stone can extend below the water line, after that there will be no rocks in the bottom and the sides go straight down. The fourth pic shows more progress in digging, at this point I am in clay.
     

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    herzausstahl, Jul 12, 2011
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  3. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    The pond dimensions are going to be about 8 x 12 x 3. The stream is going to be dug 3' wide and about 10" deep (per Addy1 recommendation) mostly due to the fact that my stream liner is 5' wide. The first pic shows where the stream will enter the pond. I do have a 10 x 15 liner to create the upper pool/falls that enter into the stream. Plan on overlapping all liners by a foot and sealing with roofing glue and making sure there is an elevation change after the seal. The stream liner entering the pond will be about 3-4" below the water line with stone on it to hold the liner down in place. The second pic shows this a little better. In the second pic you can see my ledge before the pond begins to deepen. I also added a 2' wide shelf that is about 16-18" below the water line, this is if I decide to run a winter pump to keep the water open instead of using an aerator. I would place the pump here and then run the line about 10' up the stream so I would only have to watch 10' of stream for ice dams to form but still get the effect of stream surrounded by snow. The third and fourth pics show my progress digging the deepest part of the pond (and my daughters sippy cup). Right now I am about 2' down in the center with another foot to go (will post pics when I have time). I have been relocating the excavated dirt to the upper part of the garden and will till it and then let it settle before I dig the upper pond. I plan on an upper pool that runs over a stepped rock falls into a lower pool that opens into the stream. Any advice is appreciated! Hope you enjoy my work! I have a 3 yr old daughter so my progress will largely depend on her and how often I can get a sitter. Plus I will have to wait for the upper dirt to settle after i dig the pond before I can install the liner completely.
     

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    herzausstahl, Jul 12, 2011
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  4. herzausstahl

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Wow nice job!

    Having the stream liner enter the pond is a great idea, make sure the pond liner where the stream enters is up high in the stream, above you pond water level. Water has a tendency to seep backwards if that makes sense, or wick.

    (you can always do a showcase later, like I did, if you wish.)

    If you have a pickup truck, drive it over your upper pond dirt pile to help it settle. I ran our tractor over the dirt to help it settle and compact for parts of my build.

    do you have herons? If you do make your shelf a little lower, I have read they like water up to 18 inches to stand in to fish. My one shelf between pond and bog is 20 -24 inches, great place for my plants.

    We have two herons, now, used to be one, that fly over every day, they look down but so far have not stopped by. Every morning every evening.
     
    addy1, Jul 12, 2011
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  5. herzausstahl

    sissy sissy

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    great rock find and any free rocks are worth the find .Remember if you are using those rocks in your waterfall to clean them you don't want to add dirt to your pond .It looks good but hope with your plant ledges you don't have critters around or herons or even owls as addy said gives them easy access when the plant ledges give them a step down .I really like the shape of it .Make sure you check bottom and sides for any little rocks .Take your shoes off and get those tender tootsies in there to feel around .LOL.I put a sand base under mine ,I figured if I was walking on it I wanted to make sure nothing came through .Rocks seem to grow every where around here .They just pop up ,sneeky devils they are .
     
    sissy, Jul 12, 2011
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  6. herzausstahl

    sissy sissy

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    now addy's getting fly by's .They could be fake spy planes looking for your pot LOL.Oh and after the last to winters and with the pond heaters being on clearance right now you may want to rethink that part .After last winter I broke down and bought a 750 watt one for 30 dollars at pet mountain and know it sold for a lot more than that in the winter .Better to be safe than sorry .
     
    sissy, Jul 12, 2011
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  7. herzausstahl

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    Your dig is coming along nicely. Good idea on putting the short shelf from the top for the rocks to hide the liner. My plant shelf is about 18" deep all the way around and I wish I'd made it a few inches deeper. I've never had a heron stand on the shelf but then I have all kinds of plants and shrubs and a little fence, fishing line, wind chimes etc. around my pond so he can't just walk in and see the shelf. He'd have to fly in and plop right down in the water and I'm not sure he'd feel safe doing that...............hoping anyways :fingersx:

    Heron was able to squeeze in between and under wire fence till I added some more wire to stop that. Now I also have a radio set to blast on w/ talk radio from dawn til dusk close to the pond and haven't seen him since. Still I watch for him all the time :alieneyesa:
     
    j.w, Jul 12, 2011
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  8. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    Addy,
    I don't think my pond liner will be big enough to stretch that far up the stream, but the stream liner will be long enough to overlap into the deep part of the pond. So I was going to overlap that one completely and then seal the two with roofing glue to avoid the wick effect. Also the stream will have river rock in it so I hope the weight will help keep the liners together also. I will try to post a better picture of the stream entrance so you guys will have a better idea of what it looks like, and as always any ideas are appreciated. I'm sure we have herons here because I am about a mile or two away from the Bay of Green Bay, but we have lots of places for them to hang out so not sure how many I will get. I was going to fill the ledge with plants during the summer. I had it a the height its at so I could put a winter pump there so it wouldn't circulate the lower levels of water. Not sure if I should just dig it deeper and then stack some flat rocks on it in winter so the pump could sit higher in the water on those? I do have a truck but the fence won't let it in there, but I have a tiller similiar to the Mantis that will grind up the dirt/clay so it will settle faster. And then I was going to soak it with a sprinkler to speed up the process.

    Sissy,
    Thanks, I have been collecting rocks for awhile for this. The ones in the pile have been rinsed, and I plan to rinse any as they go in (might need a pressure washer for the clay on some). The clay has lots of little rocks stuck in so I was going to put a thin layer of sand on all the shelves below water level, plus I did get the underlayment with my liner so that should help.

    J.W.,
    Thanks! One thing you could try is cd discs to keep the birds away. I just went on a garden walk this past weekend and that is what one of the home owners used to keep birds away from his cherry tree. The reflective moving light keeps them away, not sure if it would work for herons, but could be worth a try.
     
    herzausstahl, Jul 13, 2011
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  9. herzausstahl

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Try to get your pond liner as high as possible, water pressure does a good job of pushing water out of seams. I had that issue with my arizona pond.
    Use sealant, I would also get single side pond tape and tape the edges of the seam together. I used single side on the seams, double side between the two and sealant and still had seepage in arizona.
    My stream in arizona also had rocks on it, all the way to the deep end, they did not keep the seepage from happening. We had to remove the rocks,
    (if I remember right I cut the long piece of stream liner) pulled the stream liner back above the pond liner, started at the very top edge of the pond liner, goop, tape, on and on until the stream liner was around 2 feet down in the pond. Then single side tape on all of the edges..........finally no leak lol

    My pond was 5 feet deep quickly learned water pressure would just push the water out. My sealant may not been applied thick enough, who knows, just know it leaked.

    If you can get your shelves a little lower I would do it, herons will find your pond. Make it uncomfortable for them to stand and try to fish.
     
    addy1, Jul 13, 2011
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  10. herzausstahl

    sissy sissy

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    I used sand because it said it was a good insulator against cold and you should be fine I did not have enough liner for my waterfall either .The big liner only went half way up ,so I just overlapped the small liner into the pond 4 feet . yeh know what you mean by clay ,the stuff here I think they could sell it as glue
     
    sissy, Jul 13, 2011
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  11. herzausstahl

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    I do have the CD's in my cherry tree to keep the birds and deer away but I didn't want to have them at my pond if I can help it. Takes away from the natural pond look and right now no Heron come to visit anymore. I think they don't like the loud talk radio which is easy to turn off when sitting by the pond :)
     
    j.w, Jul 14, 2011
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  12. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    JW,
    Not a bad idea using talk radio so they think it is humans there. Glad to see someone else uses the cds with good results, my mom wanted to try it in her garden for raspberries and was a little skeptical until the guy pointed out all the cherries by the cds and the lack of cherries at the top of the tree where there weren't any.

    Here are some more pics, I am done digging the pond and next plan on tilling up all the dirt I dug up. I will still have dirt from the stream yet, but that will be going in a top part of the garden away from the water feature.

    The first pic is all the dirt I have dug so far. The second one is the garden as a whole. The third is the completed pond, and the fourth is a closeup of the stream entrance into the pond.
     

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    herzausstahl, Jul 14, 2011
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  13. herzausstahl

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    Man that looks like a lot of good hard digging you have done there. I bet you can't wait to be done and filling it up w/ water. It's gonna look so nice and give you so much pleasure watching your fish and plants grow very soon. Hang in there :cool:
     
    j.w, Jul 14, 2011
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  14. herzausstahl

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Nice job!, your stream entrance is not dug in real low, you should not have the problems I had with mine in arizona. In other words it should seal well, just really goop it well! Let it dry for a few days before you mess with it.
     
    addy1, Jul 14, 2011
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  15. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    JW,
    Thank you! The first foot was bad because it was labor intensive and I still had a ways to go, but after that it wasn't as bad because I could see the end result in sight. The hard part is done, now I will be waiting for the soil to settle and digging the stream and upper pond. I will probably wait until next year for fish and maybe get some plants this year when they go on sale.

    Addy,
    Good to know! I was hoping that would work so I wouldn't need to scrap the several hundred dollar liner I got and get a bigger one.

    Thanks,
    Nathan
     
    herzausstahl, Jul 14, 2011
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  16. herzausstahl

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    Nah never scrap the liner, just seal them really good! That was one problem area I had with my az pond, over seal. We made the mistake of trying to seal the two together too deep in the pond.
     
    addy1, Jul 15, 2011
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  17. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    So Addy how far down in the pond did you try to seal the liners? Mine would be about 3-4" below the surface of the pond and I was going to seal it all along the stream liner to the pond liner. Anything to avoid? What problems did you end up with yours? My goal was the stream would be 10" deep and filled with river stone for the bottom. The water level would only be a couple inches, basically whatever would stay in the stream channel. Also what is a good depth for the header pool to overflow into the stream? My goal is a little header pool at the top overflowing over a stepped falls into a small pool that would empty into the stream, any advice?
     
    herzausstahl, Jul 15, 2011
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  18. herzausstahl

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    My past hubby did it while I was at work, he and a friend sealed it 4 feet down in the pond. I suggested to them that would not work, but ummmmmmmmmmmm he iggied me lol. Well it leaked and leaked big time. They had already put a ton of rocks on the piece of liner going into the pond (I didn't want them either sigh) oh well he and friend did remove the rocks so I could then get the sucker un-sealed.

    I then started at the very top of the liner sealing it every couple inches across the connection and down the edges using sealant and double side tape, then taped the the seam with single side tape. The pond liner edge, in the stream bed was lower than the pond level. About a foot down from the pond level, so we had some water pressure we were fighting.

    There is always some movement while your pond settles, what ever you use make sure it attaches well to your liner, and I would tape the edge where you overlap. My liner rejects sealants, so when I do a connection I use flashing sealant (for roofs it is flexible), double side tape and single side tape the edges) Sort of overly cautious now.

    My header pools for my stream water falls are around 10 inches to 2 feet deep (I have a bunch of mini ponds in my stream, 100 to 300 gallons or so, never really measured them). You want it to be deep enough to collect some water, before it waterfalls over.

    Sounds great, keep posting pictures
     
    addy1, Jul 15, 2011
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  19. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    Thanks Addy,
    I might order some sticky tape then. I got the roofing sealant to put between both liners. The sides of the stream liner should overlap above the water line, but it is the front that will be below water level so it might not hurt to use the tape across where the two liners overlap just to be safe. Did you seal all of your stream liners the same way you said above? Or did you just use the roofing sealant?
     
    herzausstahl, Jul 16, 2011
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  20. herzausstahl

    herzausstahl herzausstahl

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    Here are some updated pictures. I have tilled all the soil from the pond dig and begun digging the stream. The first picture is the tilled soil (I am using a sprinkler to speed up the settling process) and the second picture is the initial stream dig. The third and fourth pictures are of the stream progress.
     

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    herzausstahl, Jul 16, 2011
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