Working on our first REAL pond...need a little advice.

[Koidreamer]

We are building a pond on a sloped hill. We are digging the upper part in and the lower part will be built above ground. The waterfall will be on the upper part obviously. It will be about 20' by 25' I think. We are still in the process of removing a very large stump that is right in the way so don't have things perfectly mapped out yet. We had talked about building it using wood but have decided to use rock. Any advice on anything would be great. I would like to build our own filters using the skippy method which I need to research more. It will be close to the house and someday have a deck built around it.
My husband is a plumber so he'll come in handy :icon_smile:. Any advice in regards to any skimmers, how to build the waterfall, is the waterfall weir a good idea, anything anything anything would be great. We are new to this so we are still trying to figure out what we are doing.

 

[DrDave]

Welcome the the GPF. My advice is don't add a skimmer or bottom drain.

 

[Koidreamer]

DrDave- Why is that? I thought the bottom drains were the first thing you wanted to figure.

 

[Koidreamer]

Okay, I am going to try to post a picture. It is a shot of the whole hill but it's cloudy, dark and about to rain so it's not a great shot. (Not sure which way to go with the links on your site so tried two):banana:

Here is the hill

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/wannabmom27/DSC_0005.jpg

And here is our house BEFORE we fixed it up. The windows have all been replaced and the landscaping has been cleaned up. Can't seem to find the new photo. Anyway, this will give you an idea in regards to the style.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b303/wannabmom27/n762196701_423521_7109.jpg

 

[DrDave]

Bottom drains get clogged at times. How are you going to clean it? Liners can leak over time at the joint. With a submersible pump your drain is where you want it to be at the time. When it cloggs, you just pull it up, hose it off and you are good again in minutes. It only takes a few leaves to completly block a bottom drain where pumps have large grills wrapped around the inlet and don't get blocked as easily.

 

[mister2driver]

Bottom drains get clogged at times. How are you going to clean it? Liners can leak over time at the joint. With a submersible pump your drain is where you want it to be at the time. When it cloggs, you just pull it up, hose it off and you are good again in minutes. It only takes a few leaves to completly block a bottom drain where pumps have large grills wrapped around the inlet and don't get blocked as easily.

That answers a question about the bottom drain I was going to ask.




Peace-

 

[Koidreamer]

Well I need to have a bottom drain and a skimmer because it is actually going to be a koi pond. I didn't realize that I was posting on a water garden forum

 

[c2c7390]

Well I need to have a bottom drain and a skimmer because it is actually going to be a koi pond. I didn't realize that I was posting on a water garden forum

you dont NEED a bottom drain...i dont have one in either of my ponds with koi...i just have a surface skimmer so that i dont get a film and helps me with the leaves

 

[DrDave]

You are on a Koi Forum, they are usually found in garden ponds...LOL

 

[oldmarine]

I like the landscape you have to work with for your Koi pond. Please keep us posted with pictures as things progress.

My yard is completely flat, and I really had to use my imagination to come up with anything that looks appealing to the eye.

 

[ZenZilla]

Welcome the the GPF. My advice is don't add a skimmer or bottom drain.

Just out of curiosity why does almost EVERY site say #1 rule for koi is bottom drain? I have seen this all over the net and was curious if you knew why they suggest this? Thanks Dave

 

[pecan]

The idea with koi ponds vs gold fish ponds is you should attempt to keep their environment as clean as possible. Bottom drains work well for that and prevent you from needing to clean the pond. But as noted above they can cause problems you wouldn't have without one. Some swear by them, some don't. Without one you need to make sure you are netting out any gunk, leaves etc from the pond as koi can be very messy.

I have a pond with koi and no bottom drain. I am in the process of planning a re-build that would include bottom drains. If done right most don't encounter issues.

If you choose to go with a bottom, you will likely need several as they only cover a 6 foot circumference. They should also be piped with 4" pipes.

You will also need it draining into a filter pit with a sieve or settlement tank. You can do this above ground with pressurized units as well.

As you can see bottom drains can get complicated and expensive with all the parts. They are not for everyone. But not overstocking a pond, having enough filtration and keeping the bottom netted out works well too instead of a bottom drain.

With a large pond Addy shared a neat trick with me this year that has saved me a ton of work and now I don't have to get into the frigged water in spring and fall. Don't use a flimsy short pond net to clean the bottom. Get a good long pool net so you can do it while standing on the edge! Brilliant!

Note the gunk from the bottom is great fertilizer in your garden or flower beds

 

[morewater]

What you have to ask yourself is this: "Am I building a pond that I can enjoy the combination of moving water, floating and marginal plants and surrounded by a complimentary garden, with the added bonus of watching fish swim around, or am I focused mainly on keeping Koi, and all the rest is just periphery?"

I think bottom drains are a pain, particularly if you ever have a problem. A decent filtration system negates the need. But that's just my opinion. Opinions are like posterior openings of digestive tracts, everyone has one, if you don't, then you're full of fecal matter.

Also, I think it'd be cheaper to just get yourself an Oase PondoVac 4 system, they're multifunctional and, like snowblowers and power tools, they're fun to play with.

 

[sissy]

don't have a bottom drain and felt i could not do it right and sure was not going to cut a hole in my liner and then have it leak or not be able to do it right .You just have to filter the pond good and net the bottom .Having a filter on each side of my pond really helps also .

 

[dieselplower]

Looks like a cool location. I wonder if you could use that rock ledge in the top of the picture as a waterfall? As you are digging out the upper part of the pond, you can use the dirt to build up the ground around the lower part of the pond. Regarding the need for a bottom drain or not, it really is a matter of personal preference. Keep in mind that any forum that focuses on Koi specifically is going to be filled with "koi snobs". Of course nothing but the "best" is good enough for these guys. I have seen threads started just so they can brag about how much their fish cost. It's really quite pathetic to me. Just taking a quick look at your picture, it looks like a lot of debris will be getting into the pond. The concern that your bottom drain will get clogged up is a good one. What happens when it clogs and your pump dries up and burns out? You may even want to consider putting a net over this pond to keep debris out.