Bleeding During transportation

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How many of you have been transporting koi in bags and aat the end of your journey, or midway through it if your like us and you've been shocked to find that the water in which the one of your koi is in is the colour of blood?
If so or if you come across this in future do you know what to do?
"I can remember the very first time this ever happened to us", (on the way to our Section show ).
Talk about freaking out, we fair roared through the picturesque Devon village of Ermington on a sleepy Sunday morning.
At break neck speed we arrived at the trout farm where it was being held in plume of dust, both in a right old state thinking the worst.
Dave the venue owner wondered what our problem was and came rushing over to the car.
After telling him our koi's problem he exclaimed dont panic this is caused by stress, had the koi not had the bleed it may well have arrived at the show dead
Since that first ever bleed it's happened on around four occaisons.
For some onknown reason it happens to female koi rather than males,as to why all these years later I'm still unsure perhaps it's a mechanism to help them cope with the rough affair of breeding I dont know???
At a show the benching team team will give you special dispensationand thus allowing you to de-bag the koi without equalizing temperatures and will bench this koi last to give it chance to recover.
However if like us you do show koi then we would suggest that you retire the koi in question and give it pet status for the rest of it's days.
Our main bleeder is now 27 years old and is still going so in reality it's not done it much harm.
This can also happen to you transporting koi from where you purchased it, the road may be rough or you've not placed it across the axle of the car there are a miriad of reasons why this could happen.
If it does treat it the same way fore go the equalization period and get it straight into Quarentine
But remember too much stress can and will kill koi quit easily, so take the bends slowly, dont brake to hard, or drive to fast, try to find a smooth route home and you may never be troubled by this ever


rgrds

Dave
 
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It's quite shocking if you get this the first time around but you get used to it .
Browntop is now our pet she doesnt do shows anymore .....

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DrCase

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That's good to know Dave . never took a Koi to the Big show
I have Gotten plenty of Koi FedEx kudos to their shocks
 
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Dont know I've only ever seen it in koi, perhaps one of the Goldfish Keepers can tell us the answer to that

rgrds

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crsublette

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From what everyone has told me, transporting koi can be extremely stressful and risky to the koi's health. There are folk that will simply not take their very high valued koi to shows due to this fact.

I have seen little transportation kits to help manage the koi's stress, which also includes little diffusors with air pumps that can be connected to the car's cigarette lighter connector thingy.

Also, for online purchases, to avoid the ride in the delivery trucks, I am told it is better to just do a drop pickup where you have to go to the airport or distribution center to get your fish package.
 
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I've heard horror storiesmy self we double bag filling the bag by a quater add small pinch of albgin ( a koi de-stressor) Oxygen filling the last three quaters of the bag, then a black bin liner.
We then place the koi into a polystyrene box the koi is then laid across the cars axle and great care is taken to drive slowly say about 40 mph- 50 mph tops taking bends etc at the same rate.
This way with a koi per bag you can get them to the show safely.
At the BKKS national show a chap had overdosed the koi with albagin he lost three koi on his journy to the show.
Another two died there after our health officer Brian (our koi club) tried unsucessfully to revive them , plus another two on this chaps way home a very costly mistake on this persons behalf.
Brian could only order this chap home after stablizing his remaining koi.

rgrds

Dave
 
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Dave? What is this product you refer to as 'add small pinch of albgin' and 'overdosed the koi with albagin'. Can you link it for me? I want to make sure I positively ID it so that it is nowhere near my fish supplies. Sounds awfully dangerous.
 
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Sorry got that wrong the product is acctully called Elbagin I've been calling it that for years and everyone knew what I was on about lol.
However I have the link you want please read carefully :-

http://www.absolute-koi.com/subcat789.html

I hope that you can get this shipped out to you and that your customs people dont get funny about it and refuse it entry....
Dont laugh we lost oodles of koi products from Japan because of e numbers and the like when the EU decided it was illegal to use this product or that etc etc.
UK customs would be better off stopping drugs rather than koi medication food etc.
Check out the koi klear Gel (the best ulcer teatment on the market however I think you'd need to get an order going for this its an ozonated gel and I describe it as the holy grail of ulcer treatments it works on goldfish as well.
If you could get enough people on this site together for a large enough order then I feel sure they would ship it out.
Its £25.00 UK making it expensive but the one tub will treat 50 fish



rgrds

Dave
 

crsublette

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Don't know why customs would refuse entry of Elbagin. In the states here, I know of many folk, one big time breeder and importer of koi from Japan, that relys on Elbagin quite heavily.

I would imagine, when anything is abused, then there will be fish kills.

Extremely important to know what you're doing and following instructions to the letter when using any of these products. This is why it is so extremely important to know exactly how many gallons of water you are treating. There are medications that are more forgiving with inaccurate doses, but there are medications where, when you screw up, then you kill or significantly damage your fish. This is how it is, be it human or fish, with all medicine. I would not approach any these products without a higher sense of awareness and knowing what you're doing.
 
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Don't know why customs would refuse entry of Elbagin. In the states here, I know of many folk, one big time breeder and importer of koi from Japan, that relys on Elbagin quite heavily.

I would imagine, when anything is abused, then there will be fish kills.

Extremely important to know what you're doing and following instructions to the letter when using any of these products. This is why it is so extremely important to know exactly how many gallons of water you are treating. There are medications that are more forgiving with inaccurate doses, but there are medications where, when you screw up, then you kill or significantly damage your fish. This is how it is, be it human or fish, with all medicine. I would not approach any these products without a higher sense of awareness and knowing what you're doing.
I was going off of others customs they can get really funny about things coming into their countrys take the US we had to steam clean all our ships vehicles prior to arriving all our unwanted food got the same treatment ...
Well said I totally agree with you on that , your thoughts on the koi Clear gel would be very much appreciated I have some in the fridge and have only ver used it once on a showa.
It cleared the ulcer up in record time with non of the scale loss you normally see .
Check out the attached file on it .
Some customs can be a funny bunch we cant get dimlin powder had some sent from South Africa I have never recieved it but I trust the chap who sent it .....

rgrds

Dave
 

crsublette

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Dave 54 said:
your thoughts on the koi Clear gel would be very much appreciated I have some in the fridge and have only ver used it once on a showa.
It cleared the ulcer up in record time with non of the scale loss you normally see .
Check out the attached file on it .
The idea of the product makes sense to me. I know hydrogen peroxide and iodine is often used to aid in the healing of ulcers or damaged skin. So, an ozonated gel would make sense.

All I know of Koi Clear gel is the talk of it and I have no reason yet to not believe its efficacy.

My realm is the impact of chemistry and microbiology on fish so I am extremely hesitant when talking about fish physiology since this is outside of my knowledge base. I try to stay away from most of these type of fish physiology conversations, but I do know, at the least, that caution must be taken when using any medication and that transportation is extremely stressful to fish.
 
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I've been doing a bit of random browsing ... you can get Elbagin in the US, from Eastern Koi & Waterscapes and Koi Acres. If not more. Elbagin is a brand name for sodium nifurstyrenate. Some research articles out there on it that I don't have access to. Seems interesting stuff.

This makes it sound like a road side peddler marketing snake oil, not that I can offer otherwise ...
Fast and effective treatment in the initial stage of ulcers, fin rot, "popeye" dropsy occurring in spring. Effective against bacteria of the strains, Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, Columnaris, Flexibacter, Streptococci and others. Very well tolerated, also by crayfish. It is absorbed quickly through the gills and can be traced in all organs after only a few minutes. The effective ingredient, sodium nifurstyrenate, acts faster and more effectively than antibiotics.
More commonly, I saw to use it with salt in transportation. And, one of the big Koi at the show this weekend was bagged in yellow water, that I jokingly thought it had pissed alot. In fact, I have a picture. Must go find ....

In the mean time, from Eastern Koi:
ELBAGIN AND SALT .. the Elbagin calms the fish down and helps them get over the stress of the journey while the salt helps clear congestion from the gills etc
Bactericide and Fungicide, used by the Japanese for years. Helps reduce stress. Ideal quarantine treatment and gill wash. May be repeated every seven days. Can be used with salt at up to 1oz per gallon. Can be used as a dip at up to 20gm per 220 gallons.
Elbagin is not very easy to come by but we are pleased to be able to advise you that we do have stocks at the moment.
 
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Glad that you can get it over your side of the pond and happy that I have put you on too it, please let us know how you get on with it but remember if your trasporting koi to or from a show or from your dealership just a very small pinch around five or six crystals that all .
Weve only ever found it in small blue bags up until now and the instructions were in Japanese so word went around by word of mouth with some accidents along the way not by us but word would get around of overdosing koi and they dying from a source I know and trust
I aim to be buying a larger bag sortly to put in our chemical treatments kit pretty soon, glad that there is a source in the US and no customs hassles

rgrds

Dave
 

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