First time into free form pond, need suggestions

[Birdman2]

I have enough 45mil epdm to construct a 20' x 10' pond. Initially will start with comets as we are close to a river and want to see wildlife interaction before investing in koi. I will hand dig and hope to have 3' deep for wintering. The removed ground should make a nice berm for a horseshoe waterfall. There is 1 infant Ginko tree to provide some shade, but I know when it developes it will have huge leaves. I need recomendations on skimmer size and features for potential koi pond and also to house a suitable pump that will be approximately 20' away from falls and hopefully 4' high. Furthermore, I would like to use more than 1 spillway and am curious if they all need to have filtration. Would 1 biofalls and some simple spillways cause a filteration problem. Any input would be greatly appreciated since prior to this I have only had a small preformed pond with bottom filter and pump.

 

[CountryEscape]

Welcome, Birdman2!!! I'm in IL, and not positive where Yorkville is, so it must be in northern IL. I would suggest making the pond somewhat smaller, and go 4' deep. If you are considering koi, the deep will serve them better. I have a 19'x9' koi pond, 4' on one end, 3.5' on the other. I have a waterfall made from some of the dirt, too! If you want to see pics, my thread is The Pond Dig Has Begun. I'll "bump" it up so you can find it.
Others can chime in about filter situations. My 4200 Laguna Max Flow pump is in the pond, on a milk crate, feeds my waterfall and fountain. I have a small skimmer, which seems to do the job quite well. I have a 1600 gph pump in the skimmer, which then feeds the plant bog, which is approx. 10'x2.5'x14" deep. The bog is a great filtration device! I'm well pleased with it. I also built a Skippy filter that feeds the top of the waterfall, and think it does a good job as well. My second pond is all goldfish, only 3-3.5' deep and a little smaller (17x7) but has a 17x3'x18" deep bog that is the sole filtration to the pond. So far, so good! Crystal clear water on both ponds right now.
Good luck with your build! I'll be watching your thread, as I really enjoy seeing others dig their ponds. Take lots of pics.

 

[Fishylove]

Again, welcome birdman! Your design sounds like it will be beautiful! I live at the southern most tip of indiana, almost directly below you in our beautiful midWest wonderland I believe you guys get more snow and get a bit colder than we do here,( I'm about two hours from ce!) So, if at some point you do plan on having Koi, I agree with ce on the depth. Gold fish are hardier than Koi, not nearly as large, and do not require the space or the depth that Koi do when wintering. In your area, you would be wise to have a small-ish area that is at least 4' deep, unless you plan on heating the pond over the winter, in which case ignore my rambling Lol And I say Small-ish, depending on how many Koi you were planing on having. My pond is 10 X 12 X stair stepped. The first foot is very shallow on one end , for a planting ledge and for small fish a wild life ( birds etc..) then down from there with a series of caves and ledges made of sandstone. The sides start at a 2' ledge then drops to 5' deep. And honestly I really didn't expect them to stay on the bottom all winter, but they did. It wasn't until the warmer days and sun coming out started recently that I could see there color even. So I was surprised at that. I do have a small waterfall at one end that also is filtering but my main filter will be the planted bog which is 12 X 3 X 18" and spills over back into the pond. Unless you are constructing the functioning part of the spillways, most that you buy function as a filter as well. I made my spillway with a pottery urn with bio balls in the bottom and lava rock atop of that, mostly for aesthetics than filtering material, but it does the job and holds down the bio balls too! Mainly, everything is going to depend on the time and effort you are wanting to put into caring for your pond and your new pets and your imagination, more filtration in not a bad thing!!
Oh...... Also I saw you said " invest" in Koi..... Which leads me to think the more expensive Koi ( which is GREAT, more power to you if that's what you want, lots of members on here who have prize winning Koi). Just didn't know, if you knew that koi and goldfish, comets etc., will cross breed. So take that into consideration when planning what to stock and how many also. Some members don't mind the crossing and sometimes makes for a conversation piece
OK enough of my rambling!! Someone else's turn I past the gauntlet !

 

[Birdman2]

Thanks so much for your input! I will take pictures and am pleased to get the direction from you. Was thinking I might need a skimmer with a large opening due to the size of the leaves, but then would worry about fish or wildlife entering. Never once thought about a bog area, wonder if I could incorporate that behind the falls. Now if only the weather would break so I can break ground. Unfortunately, I also promised my sweetheart a rose garden, contrary to the song, so I might have to appease her first.

 

[Event Horizon]

If you are going to have a lot of stuff falling into the pond I would go with a skimmer. It’s much easier to empty a basket than scoop stuff off the bottom. I have a 5,000 gph pump in mine and a fish have never been stuck in it. They swim right in front of it, practically in it and they have no issues at all. A skimmer is only going to draw the top layer of water. If you are going to go the 3-4 feet, you will need to move the bottom water as well (in my opinion). There will be others here better suited to help you with that.

 

[CountryEscape]

The larger the pump in your skimmer, the more force the water will be sucked into it. I've found baby snapping turtles, fish and frogs in my skimmer. Besides the baby turtles, I'm pretty sure the other items went in there on purpose, either looking for food, or shelter. And, if you have lots of trees, you will likely want to net your pond during the fall, to keep the leaves out. I don't have many trees, very few leaves make it to my pond, but when the weather gets very hot, sometimes there is squishy algae that forms on the top of the water, too, that the skimmer takes care of. I agree, move the water towards the bottom, too. You will figure it out as you go, and then when you think you have it all figured out, and are enjoying your creation, you'll see something you wish you had incorporated into your pond, or want to fix something you DID incorporate, and you will change things! It's always fun to make changes and create different ideas later on. So, don't worry if you make a change during the planning stages, or even after you started digging. I found the digging the most enjoyable part of building my 2 ponds. Me and a shovel dug them, but to me the hardest part was moving the dirt, and I had a utility tractor with a 5' wide scoop to take care of that for me. Couldn't have done it without the tractor. My old back would not have handled that very well.
So, pictures before, during and after are essential, and enjoyed by us all!

 

[Fishylove]

Oh yes very much so!! We love pictures! I'm the opposite of ce my ponds are directly under huge trees, but as she mentioned, I put a net ( you can use a bird net or deer netting) up over the whole thing Before the leaves start to fall, it i didn't I wouldn't be able to keep up. As far as the water moving on the bottom, my spill over does a pretty good job of that. You could also have a splitter coming off of your pump with a valve and push water that way too, you don't need it to whirlpool or anything like that, just adjust it enough to slowly keep the water moving in all parts of the pond. You'll figure it out And koi like moving water
A rose garden sounds marvolous! I too can't wait to see spring!! Neither can Tolbert, my pot belly; who officially weighed in at the vets at 127lbs!!! For those of you that are interested lol, he's gets so bored inside!!

 

[sissy]

for colder states and hotter states deeper is always better .I went just over 4 feet and only because I am short is why I did not go deeper .I would still be in the hole and not be able to get out .

 

[sissy]

koi get very large and are harder to take care of and better with goldfish as I bought mine 9 years ago and they were only a couple of inches long and are now over 2 feet .Where were the people to tell me this then . :razz:

 

[Birdman2]

Thanks again, will go as deep as possible. As far as koi go, I want to see whether or not I am going to have predators or not. Close to a river and don't want to feed birds of prey or racoons expensive sushi.

 

[sissy]

very true and racoons don't need fattening up and much cheaper and easier to start with goldfish .Check out craigslist to see if any one is getting rid of some of there fish because goldies have tons of babies .

 

[CountryEscape]

I will be getting rid of some of my goldies this summer, Birdman, and may even bring them close to you, if I'm on a trip to my sister's houses in Milwaukee area. Just a thought ... they would be larger than the store bought ones, but easier to keep going, too, and smarter than the little ones.

 

[Fishylove]

Another rule of thumb is as you're are in the lay out stages of the pond, plan it so that the predators have a "difficult time" reaching your fish. In other words, not having things such as having an island of sorts in the center, having ledges shallow enough around the pond that a bird of prey can stand in the water and pick them off. In short, the more difficult you make it for them to get at your fish, the more likely they are to move on to easier prey. In my opinion, you having a river system near your house, is more of a good thing because they have an abundant food sorce, again my opinion. I have several marshes near my home and a large nateral pond next door, Blue Heron haven't found me yet. And unless your pond is very shallow, raccoons aren't much of a threat either. In fact I have more problems with bullfrogs eating my small fish than anything. So you might wanna take ce up on the larger Goldie's, just sayin bullfrog will eat anything they can stuff in their fat little mouths ( Anything! ). And if you if find them around your pond, and they are as big as your closed fist? Or even close to it. Remove Them, and Far Away! Now that just Bull Frogs, tree frogs are fine to have around. Love their singing at night

 

[Fishylove]

Ohhh lots of typos in that one, hah! But you get the idea lol

 

[sissy]

blame it on the key board .I do .