Holding tank

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 28, 2013
Messages
13,348
Reaction score
13,777
Location
Northern IL
Showcase(s):
1
People always ask us "how cold does the water get?" and I'm like "well, cold enough for the top to freeze!" haha!
 

sissy

sissy
Joined
Jan 17, 2011
Messages
33,086
Reaction score
15,707
Location
Axton virginia
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
I have one but since pond is so close to the septic tank water at the lowest rarely gets below 45 degrees .I wish they marked the thing because I have no clue the brand and I got it as a gift .I put it about 6 inch's off the bottom .The unit I read indoors got the name rubbed off of it from touching it .If I can remember it is around 6 years old .The newer ones are probably much better .Not sure of how accurate it is .When we cleaned out the closets I think the book got lost in the mess .
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
159
Location
South carolina
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
Sorry, but that's incorrect. koi do fine down to 32F, for months at a time.

.
Actually it isn’t incorrect. The only marine animals able to survive 32 degree water are in Antarctica and have blood antifreeze to avoid ice crystal formation. At 32 degrees, water loses a huge spike in energy as the crystals form and parts of the water are crystalline while some are not. These crystals puncture tissue and destroy cells. At 34 degrees there is enough of an energy cushion that the crystals cannot form. From the aquaculture community you will find that they avoid approaching freezing for this precise reason.

That said, if we don’t have thermometers at the bottom of the pond how do we know what that temperature is, and how can we say that koi do fine at depth temperatures of 32 degrees? The literature says otherwise and so does the physics.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,241
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada
Marine animals don't enter into the equation here.
Some of us do have accurate thermometers at varying depths within our ponds.
Our ponds have various salts and impurities in the water so can actually reach temperatures below 32F. Water circulation will also prevent freezing, to a degree.
Some carp have been shown to be physiologically adapted to survive in cold temperatures by converting lactic acid into ethanol. This adaptability also helps them survive longer in a low or zero oxygen environment.

If you have some literature that demonstrates that koi will indeed die at 33F, please post it.

Otherwise, we here that have kept or are keeping koi in 32F water will continue to do so and not inform the koi that they should be dead.;)
We have one member here that has been keeping the same koi through our 6 month winters for more than 20 years.

.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
159
Location
South carolina
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
And of course you know the temperature of your pond at depth because it’s not the same as at the surface.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,241
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada
And of course you know the temperature of your pond at depth because it’s not the same as at the surface.

I know the temperatures because I had separate temperature probes at varying depths.

You made a definitive statement that koi will die at a certain temperature, so I'm asking where you got that information from, because it goes against everything I have learned and if people follow your belief, it could lead them to try find solutions to a problem that doesn't exist.

.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
159
Location
South carolina
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
Okay. Just google koi temperature range or phrase that captures the concept of the lowest temperature for koi. Spoiler alert. The range for long term koi husbandry bottoms out at 34 degrees. One article states that ice crystals form in the gill tissue and kills the fish over time. The physiology will also be mentioned stating that koi are poikilothermic which means that their body temperature adapts to the temperature of their surroundings. In summer a koi body temperature is about 2 degrees higher than the surrounding water. In winter the koi metabolism slows and their temperature approaches the surrounding water. And it would be great if you could document that koi generate ethyl alcohol in their blood. That would be great to share with the koi world. Koi are related to yeast? Wow.
 
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
159
Location
South carolina
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
That’s why they call it google. I’m still trying to find the ethyl alcohol koi article. I’ll keep trying. Why don’t you share pictures of your temperature measurement system at all levels of your pond. Sounds great.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,241
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada
Ok, so you can't provide an article. Just say so. It's most likely an old article.
The study I posted above is recent and done on a species of the Cyprinidae family.
The Cyprinidae family includes carp and minnows.
Everything I've seen with regards to how healthy goldfish, koi and minnows survive winter conditions, tells me that they all most likely possess the gene that allows them to survive cold water, below 34F.
I have yet to see any fish deaths of koi, goldfish or minnows that can be attributed to cold temperatures.
Deaths have been caused because of weak fish going into winter or poor water conditions during periods of ice cover.
Because of how recent the study was done, plus your comment about yeast tells me that you may not have been previously aware of this article.
If you have a different explanation how koi are presently surviving temperatures below 34F (because they are), please elaborate.

.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 29, 2010
Messages
343
Reaction score
159
Location
South carolina
Hardiness Zone
8a
Country
United States
You do know what google means don’t you? Plenty of material out there. The articles are crying for you to push the button. You do understand the laws of physics, right? And in the mean time if someone follows your advice and keeps Koi in 32 degree water long term, are you willing to reimburse them for the loss? It’s easy to be an anonymous, distant internet expert. It’s easy to believe. Good luck with that.
 
Joined
Jun 11, 2012
Messages
7,046
Reaction score
7,241
Location
Water Valley, Alberta
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
2a
Country
Canada
Forums such as this one exist to help people with quality and relevant information so they don’t have to decipher all the nonsense that’s available on the internet.
Telling someone to “google it” when asked for data backing up a claim helps no one.
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,900
Reaction score
29,884
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
I just googled it.............per the net koi and goldfish die below 50F and also survive down to almost freezing water as long as they are not frozen in the ice.

Take your pick!
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
1,993
Reaction score
1,786
Location
BC Canada
I "Googled" it and this is one article I came up with. https://www.pondexperts.ca/pond-advice-tips/how-to-winterize-your-pond/
To quote " Goldfish and koi are very hardy fishes; they can survive water temperatures as low as 0°C, which means they can survive in the pond during the winter as long as it doesn’t freeze solid and they have adequate water quality and oxygen."
I will admit there are plenty of articles that state a much higher minimum temperature should be maintained for Koi, but personal experience has taught me that koi are not harmed by near-freezing temperatures providing they are healthy and other water parameters are kept in check.

Opps, I see Addy just jumped in there and beat me to the punch with a similar comment.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
31,488
Messages
517,713
Members
13,688
Latest member
Dana D

Latest Threads

Top