Holding tank

[sissy]

I have taken out abandoned ponds that fish should not have survived in .Water was smelly plant material in pond was over powering .Some preforms and some liner ponds .Longest one abandoned was 8 years and koi were over 2 foot long in about 18 inch's of water with about a foot of muck on the bottom and it had to have frozen over during the winters ,yet they survived and were amazingly healthy and the people I gave them to still have them and that was back in 2014 .I know because that was the year I rebuilt the pond after the moles chewed holes in my liner .That was the pond that I thought had no fish in it and I tried to put a plant out with my truck and the epdm liner came out with it ,or at least started to before I saw the fish .I then had to rethink the whole thing and lucky I had people who wanted fish near and had built their pond just 3 months before with my help .No one ever really knows what fish can survive through .It is just a crap shoot .Being condescending to other ponders is not being really nice carolinaguy ,just my opinion but seems rude to me /////////maybe you did not mean it that way but it to me seems that way

You do know what google means don’t you? Plenty of material out there. The articles are crying for you to push the button. You do understand the laws of physics, right? And in the mean time if someone follows your advice and keeps Koi in 32 degree water long term, are you willing to reimburse them for the loss? It’s easy to be an anonymous, distant internet expert. It’s easy to believe. Good luck with that.

 

[Mmathis]

Far from being an expert at anything, there are lessons I’ve learned — in some cases, there are no absolutes.......and there are just too many variables in play in any situation to make an “absolute” prediction.

 

[Lisak1]

I've also learned that this is a polite forum where people don't say things like "you do know what google means don't you". Keep it civil @carolinaguy - those are the rules we like to play by here. We can disagree and share opposing opinions, but rudeness won't fly. Your tone is unnecessarily aggressive.

 

[addy1]

As @Lisak1 states please keep it civil. We can all disagree about anything, but we all disagree nicely. No need for put downs and rudeness.

 

[Becky]

@carolinaguy please read the forum etiquette (link in my signature). As the others have said, this is a polite and friendly forum.

 

[carolinaguy]

If this dialogue has upset you, I apologize. That said, you might think of dropping the political correctness hammer on the other half of this conversation. Read his posts, the whole series. What do you think? Is this polite or rude? It’s just goading to me but what do I know.

 

[Mmathis]

As Thumper said, “If you can’t say something nice......don’t say nuthin’ at all.” Who cares who gets the final word?

 

[Lisak1]

If this dialogue has upset you, I apologize. That said, you might think of dropping the political correctness hammer on the other half of this conversation. Read his posts, the whole series. What do you think? Is this polite or rude? It’s just goading to me but what do I know.

I re-read the whole thread. Everyone else is just contributing. You're on the defensive for reasons of your own I guess. I mean, it's just pond talk. Asking people to keep it friendly is far from being PC. That's just polite society.

I'm hoping @Tiffany will find her way back to this thread to answer some of the questions that have been asked so we can keep this thread on track.

 

[Becky]

If this dialogue has upset you, I apologize. That said, you might think of dropping the political correctness hammer on the other half of this conversation. Read his posts, the whole series. What do you think? Is this polite or rude? It’s just goading to me but what do I know.

A conditional apology is not an apology.

If you cannot see that you are in the wrong here then we have a problem.

 

[sissy]

life goes on and we all love life .geeze must be a hippy flashback for me .

 

[carolinaguy]

I’m a fat old balled headed 71 year old white guy who was not raised in this politically correct world. I also do not suffer foolish counterfactual thought. If dialogue, firm science based discussion is not tolerated on this website, then that’s fine. Arguing that 32.0 degree water supports vertebrate life defies the fundamental fact that water becomes a crystalline solid, not considering dissolved salts, with sharp cutting edges that penetrate tissue and kills cells. It also defies logic that if 32.0 degree water is dangerous it would be wise to plan a cushion of 2 degrees in a recommendation to novices who just don’t know about koi husbandry. To state that there is a system of thermometers at various depths installed and that supports expertise is just silly talk. Then there is the whole discussion that a 7 foot deep pond can maintain a thermocline and keep warmer water deep. 39 degrees is the heaviest water. Shallower ponds will not support a thermocline: however there is the whole concept of a frost layer in construction below which the ground will not freeze. That’s why building codes require foundations to be build below the local frost line. That means that a 4 foot deep pond in South Carolina extends three feet below freezing and the surrounding soil serves as a heat sink heating the water through the liner to above freezing during the winter, so again, no ice crystals. That’s just hard science that doesn’t require a study. Why do you think the food industry uses flash freezing to preserve food? If you take the heat out fast enough, the sharp crystals don’t form and cut the cells. Ever see the growth of a snow flake in slow motion? Every one of those ice blades is as sharp as a scalpel and will penetrate flesh. Why would anyone with an educated mind ignore hard scientific fact and recommend an idea that on its face defies hard science? Sorry but I’ve lost too many fish when I have ignored the science and I don’t want that to happen to others because of something I have said. 34 degrees is safe, and if the pond will go lower, then add heat in some way to keep the fish safe. It’s easy to do and you won’t have regrets.

 

[Lisak1]

@carolinaguy - you share a lot of science, but we have yet to see photos of any of your ponds. In March of 2017 you said you were building your third pond and expected to be done in April of 2017 and would post photos. 18 months later, still no photos and you've said it's still not complete. I'm just curious why you are so hesitant to show your pond.

 

[Somethin' Fishy]

 

[carolinaguy]

Because I live a very complicated life. We planned to finish the pond in April but then my father in law went into 4 th stage Parkinson’s and lives 2 hours away so we were on the road a lot helping him and his wife who suffers from lymphadema and was his primary caregiver. He soon died and his wife tried to remain in their 4400 square foot home alone using a walker. We tried to move her into our home but she refused until she fell in the garage and spent the night on a concrete floor. We spent the next months preparing her home for sale and moving her into our house. In March my wife started showing symptoms of what was diagnosed as ALS in January 2018. Sorry I haven’t met your requirement for finishing our pond, but I’ve been distracted by real life.

 

[Lisak1]

I wasn’t questioning why you haven’t finished. I was questioning why you won’t even show in progress photos. Thats what construction threads are for. Or how about your previous ponds? Surely you have photos of those?

One picture is worth a thousand words, right?