Aeromonas........'No Mas'

[Meyer Jordan]

Oh! If that could only be true. Well we are not quite there yet, but we may be getting close.

What is the source of this optimism? It is not some ‘Snake Oil’ chemical concoction, nor is it some ‘wonder-working’ device. No, it is something that already exists and is readily supplied by Nature. It is a commonly occurring bacteria that, within the past two (2) decades, has garnered the attention of the scientific and aquaculture community for its probiotic ability to reduce pathogenic bacterial levels,

Its name is Bdellovibrio or more specifically Bdellovibrio bacteriovorous (bacteria eater). It is a predatory parasite that preys on only gram negative bacteria such as Aeromonas, Pseudomonas, E. coli, Salmonella etc. It can reduce an E. coli population by 90% in less than an hour. And the good news is that it has no known negative side effects. It can’t be overdosed. It does not affect any aquatic organisms. It has no effect on Nitrifying bacteria. It is perfectly happy to just go after the ‘bad guys’.

It has been used with great results in China since 1994, but not yet elsewhere. And, sadly, it may be a long, long time before an inoculant of this bacteria is available to the aquarium and pond community.

I have an industry colleague that works for one of the leading producers of bacterial treatments. I inquired of them if the company that they work for was doing any current research and development on an inoculant or planning on doing so. They said that they would pass the inquiry along to the company’s Lab director. I received my response yesterday. It was that the Lab director had never heard of this organism so there would be no research conducted.

This is a leading company that produces bacterial treatments and they have never heard of a potential (in the West) probiotic bacteria that has been known since 1960, in use in another country for two (2) decades and is the subject of intensive research into its use as a probiotic in the West. With that response I lost all trust and confidence in this particular company. But maybe another company will produce such a product considering its potential use in Western aquaculture.

We can always hope.

 

[mrsclem]

There is a product on the market - Aqua MedZyme that supposedly competes with the bad bacteria for food and therefore decreases their numbers. Not sure if it is the same or similar to what you posted. I used it last year after we had a bad spring and am considering using it this year with the crazy weather conditions. Water temps have been 45- 60 in less than one week! Let me know what you think- snake oil?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

There is a product on the market - Aqua MedZyme that supposedly competes with the bad bacteria for food and therefore decreases their numbers. Not sure if it is the same or similar to what you posted. I used it last year after we had a bad spring and am considering using it this year with the crazy weather conditions. Water temps have been 45- 60 in less than one week! Let me know what you think- snake oil?

Not the same thing. Medzyme is just more 'snake oil'. My post focuses on a certain probiotic bacteria that actively hunts and destroys gram negative pathogenic bacteria. Did you read it?

 

[mrsclem]

Yes I did. I'm shocked that something would actually be available in China but nowhere else. Hopefully someone will do the research and work on producing it here.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Yes I did. I'm shocked that something would actually be available in China but nowhere else. Hopefully someone will do the research and work on producing it here.

It has been cultured in laboratories multiple times and is being considered for widespread use in commercial aquaculture, but Western civilization is so paranoid that anything new in the food industry has to be tested-to-death before it is 'approved' for general use. It has been tested in chickens as a probiotic and shown to drastically reduce the presence of Salmonella. It is probably already in many peoples' ponds, just not in sufficient numbers.

 

[mrsclem]

I did some reading and saw where it was tested on chickens. Also saw it was considered as a treatment in dental applications. I understand the concern on human testing as they don't have anyway to see if there are long term problems. Guessing there are not enough people willing to spend money for research on it for aquaculture.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I did some reading and saw where it was tested on chickens. Also saw it was considered as a treatment in dental applications. I understand the concern on human testing as they don't have anyway to see if there are long term problems. Guessing there are not enough people willing to spend money for research on it for aquaculture.

Actually there is considerable research being done on aquacultural applications. Most of the past research and some of the current comes from....guess where...China. But because aquaculture is considered part of the food processes in the West much more in-depth research is required before use can be approved. Meanwhile, China is leading the way.
Aquaculture (for food) aside, that has no bearing on its use in the Ornamental Fish Industry. It is a naturally occurring organism, not a clone, not a genetic modification, but basically a run-of-the-mill bacteria that just happens to kill other bacteria that are fish pathogens. There is no reason for not at least investigating its possible applications in this industry.

 

[MitchM]

This statement made me cringe....
"It was that the Lab director had never heard of this organism so there would be no research conducted."

 

[Meyer Jordan]

This statement made me cringe....
"It was that the Lab director had never heard of this organism so there would be no research conducted."

I was dumbfounded when I was told this, but it does support my longstanding belief and claim that there are too many individuals in the Water Feature Industry that are in positions that will influence many others that simply do not have a grasp of what is really going on in the aquatic world. What is even more troublesome is that they seem to have no desire to expand their knowledge relying mainly on what makes them money. This is what initially drove me into heavy research and has made me such a stickler for accurate information.

 

[brokensword]

Meyer; is this bacteria-buster available to be purchased from China? Or is this something internal to their industries? And thinking further, it probably wouldn't be allowed in the USA, right?

EDIT: just tried and this is the link I came up with.

https://www.atcc.org/products/all/15356.aspx

Is this the same stuff? Seems it is able to be purchased, but you need some $$. Wonder if there's a way to pool an order for any interested? Just thinking out loud...

EDIT 2; (really have to stop posting before I have all my questions in my head!!) Meyer; googling the characteristics from the above link, seems this bacteria eater resides in Fire Blight of certain fruits? If so, does that mean if you place an infected apple near your pond (or in) that the bactoeater would move in and do as you're wishing? This seems too easy, I must be missing something...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Meyer; is this bacteria-buster available to be purchased from China? Or is this something internal to their industries? And thinking further, it probably wouldn't be allowed in the USA, right?

You are very likely correct in your assumption that any product based on this bacteria would not be allowed to be imported. The knowledge for commercial production exists in Western culture, it is just not considered enough.
This partial quote from a China-authored paper detailing the issues within China in 2013 concerning the use of Bdellovibrio: "......the control technique on its strains' variation,its bacteriolytic mechanism,effective safety evaluation systems and methods,its new preparations' innovation,and its rational application technology." Evidently since this paper was published these concerns have been addressed....in China.

 

[brokensword]

You are very likely correct in your assumption that any product based on this bacteria would not be allowed to be imported. The knowledge for commercial production exists in Western culture, it is just not considered enough.
This partial quote from a China-authored paper detailing the issues within China in 2013 concerning the use of Bdellovibrio: "......the control technique on its strains' variation,its bacteriolytic mechanism,effective safety evaluation systems and methods,its new preparations' innovation,and its rational application technology." Evidently since this paper was published these concerns have been addressed....in China.

Did you see my edits? Am I glossing over the obvious to think Fire Blight contains this bactoeater?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Did you see my edits? Am I glossing over the obvious to think Fire Blight contains this bactoeater?

The simple answer is that this is the correct bacteria but probably not the correct strain.
The Bdellovibrio strains that were isolated in the Aeromonas research were
Bdellovibrio sp. strain ETB (GenBank Accession No. DQ302728) and Bdellovibrio bacteriovorus strain SRA9 (GenBank Accession No. AF263833). The strain in the link is 100 [NCIB 9529]. Don't ask me to explain bacterial strains other than to say that each strain will behave in a unique way. Genetic engineering is the means to amplify these traits. Think of flu season. Every year usually presents a different strain of the flu virus.
And yes, these bacterial products are going to be expensive, at least for the near future. However the costs for these products is low for aquaculture as it is offset by reduced fish mortality.
It should be pointed out that what is offered by this linked website is 'seed' bacteria. You will still need a laboratory to culture and propagate the bacteria. Go the the linked page, click on Documentation then of Product Sheet. $294.99 for a vial (of unknown size.

 

[brokensword]

Gotcha; I thought it was too easy...

 

[Meyer Jordan]

My understanding of this bacteria is that it is non-selective in what pathogenic bacteria it attacks. Apparently opportunistic in that it goes after whatever is closest. Genetic engineering refines this making this predation target specific. In other words, the bacteria is engineered, for example, to attack just E. coli and ignore the other pathogenic bacteria. I am going to jump to the conclusion that it is this genetic engineering and the general public's perception that has slowed down the acceptance of any bacteria-based application being introduced into the food supply.