DISCLAIMER STATEMENT FOR GPF.....

[Mmathis]

MY RECOMMENDATION: We add a DISCLAIMER statement to the Posting Information.....

TO NEW MEMBERS: "Waterbug is knowledgeable, and is a valuable member of our GPF Community. Please disregard his sarcasm, and don't take it personally. That's just the way he is -- annoying, but he adds 'spice' as well as information to our conversations!"

TO OLD MEMBERS: "You guys know how he is. Accept it. Get over it. Remember, it takes 2...."
_______________________________

Yes, we do get some "lively" conversations going on here. And, yes, I agree that often some members (and it's not just WB, either, guys!) are not very sensitive. I hate to see a sarcastic comment made when someone is only asking for help. BUT....

The threads I MOST enjoy reading are the ones where we DON'T ATTACK either the OP or other members. These are the threads where we stay on-topic, on-course. Take care of the OP's question/issue/problem at hand. Sure, stick some education in there, too, but when you're drowning, you want a life preserver, not people asking why you never learned to swim when you were 5 years old.

Help them get past their emergency, then help them LEARN so it won't happen again. Throw them that life preserver, then introduce them to swimming lessons. If everyone stands around arguing and pointing fingers, then the guy's gonna drown.

MY MAIN POINT, I guess, is that there will always be "Waterbugs," in this world. And when he's good, he's really good! But I don't think it helps anyone, especially the OP, when we hijack the OP's post to argue and berate either the OP or each other.

 

[bettasngoldfish]

well said TM

 

[Mmathis]

This isn't aimed so much at WB, as it is something for ALL OF US on the GPF to keep in mind.

 

[dieselplower]

Folks think this place is rough? Try a diesel truck performance forum. This place is candyland .

I cant really even believe this thread was started

 

[Waterbug]

Gee Mommy...why should I take this as a personal attack?

I rarely use sarcasm. The posts I think you're referring to were not sarcasm. They're were direct, to the point, I believe 100% true, and as good or better advice than any other post. Just because you think it's sarcasm doesn't actually make it sarcasm. Just because you don't like a post doesn't make it sarcasm or bad info. It only reflects on you. That you feel free to belittle and criticize me reflects on you.

I always take criticism from self righteous people as a huge compliment. So thank you.


Since you've decided now would be a good time for members to start judging other members and I have been so judged, I guess I should be allowed to do a little judging too. I can be as self righteous as the next person.

I've been in many forums for many years. Funny thing, I don't have this issue in lots of forums. Places where posters are knowledgeable, care about the subject, can discuss a subject with any degree of rational thought. The focus is on the forum subject, a subject we all care about.

Then there are the forums for myths and people who want to appear as knowledgeable but don't want to lift a finger to learn anything. Places for people to post their "expertise" because they get ridiculed in the serious forums. A place experts can slap each other on the back, stroke each other's ego and push out anyone who disagrees with them. Create a fantasy world for themselves. Many of these posters I think actually think their far out, baseless, opinions are actual help. That they aren't misleading newbies into serious problems. Sad.

But poor unsuspecting newbies do fall into these forums thinking they're getting good advice. Instead get a long list of junk advice bundled up like it's help. Junk advice that causes fish deaths, people to fill in ponds, leave the hobby forever and tell everyone they know to never put in a pond. Ever wonder why there are so many 1 and 2 posts from newbies and they're never heard from again? Sure, you can blame my horrible bedside manner if that makes your fantasy world better for yourself. But maybe it could be they did a bit of research and figured out this is not a good place for pond info. I get a fair number of emails from people who read here or make a couple of posts and would rather talk to me directly to solve a pond problem. My posts are directed to those people. Smart enough to see crap and wanting to actually fix a pond, not just chat and stroke egos.

I know my posts upset "experts". It damages their egos to be presented with actual links and references to actual data and facts that show their advice to be dumb. That's really hard to avoid when advice is bat butt crazy. My advice is if you don't like it, stop posting dumb advice as if it were fact or as if you know what you're talking about. Or enter into a discussion and provide your own references to support your claims.

Or just attack people.

Whatever makes you feel better.

Is my rant fair? Hurtful? Self righteous? Good. Then it fits right in.

 

[sissy]

I just think that some of the really hard core pond stuff scares newbies to ponding .They want simple easy to follow instructions at first ,geeze I know nothing about raising show quality fish or even selling them but I get the job done .I use my own simple method of ponding .My fish are just cheap lovable mutts but they are my mutts and have yet to kill one .Gosh newbies are scared enough and most of them realize they jumped into ponding to fast ,just like I did .Most times you give them a little hlp then they can figure it all out themselves .Some people are very visul also and pics really help explain .Yes there are hard core ponders on here but newbies are really looking for a simple answer to a question to help them a little .They don't want to be scared away from ponding as it is really the most relaxing hobby after you get over the scared what did i do and why did i do a pond in the first place phase .Ponds take time to get established and there are no really quick easy to do methods for ponds .You use info on here and have to digest it all .Sometimes I compare it to being new parents of a baby ,fish babies in this case :cheerful:I would not want a doctor to treat me bad .Would I go back to him no

 

[Fishylove]

To be honest, I don't see Tmommy's post as an attack on you waterbug. If anything, at least how I read it ( or maybe I need a recourse on comprehension) she's singIng your praises? TM correct me if I'm wrong here, you are saying that dispite his demeanor, waterbug is a important asset and knowledgeable part of our forum. That's how I took it, and was very surprised to see the coments below it :huh:
Of course, I haven't been on in several days and haven't read every post. I could be wrong

 

[Waterbug]

I just think that some of the really hard core pond stuff scares newbies to ponding .They want simple easy to follow instructions at first ,geeze

I agree 100%.

When most newbies post a problem they want a bottle of something to add, a pill, that will make the pond right. The pond is a landscape feature, not a hobby. That's fine. 100% of people who hire me feel the same way. Great people, smart as can be, just not into ponds as a hobby. They want a nice trouble free landscape feature.

If a newbie posts a question I think they deserve a fair answer. I think most newbies are just as scared of building quilt batting filters and Skippy filters to clear a green pond judging by the extremely low number (almost none) who seem to follow thru and post results.

I think telling a newbie UV cures green water is a solution. I don't think most want to install a bog to see if that works, or build some filter that doesn't work. I think spending $100 for a UV is better advice than spending $200 on a bog, a week worth of work and a ton of learning. If a newbie doesn't feel comfortable installing a UV at least they know want they need and can check into hiring someone. That will give them a clear pond in less than a week for less cost than most home remedies that generally don't work.

When a newbie implements a solution like buying barley straw and adding it to their pond and 2 months later than still have a green pond plus a rotting straw to remove how do you think it makes them feel? Well the experts said it would work and no one said it wouldn't...so I must have done something wrong. A failure. A few of those and the person is ready to fill in the pond. Working with someone right now to fill in a nice pond, would be easy to fix the small problems, but she is so sick of trying one crap idea after another that she's been told that she just wants it filled in. And this is a serious gardener who said she loved the pond...but just can't trust any more "fixes". She assume, and rightly so, that my "fixes" are just more crap. How could she not?

Crap easy to type and read answers is exactly what most newbies are looking for. They say "thank you soooo much", makes you feel great. They go off and implement the answers and pretty soon I'm getting called to fill in another pond. They almost never come back to the forum and post "I failed" or "you advice was crap". You don't see the other end of ponds where people are so sick of all the crap info that they just want out.

If a newbie has dying fish and is looking for a quick fix there isn't one. I think the fish have a much better chance if the person does nothing. Instead they get "add salt", "do water changes", "feed them peas", "raise pH", "lower pH". And they toss one "cure" after another until the fish are stressed enough to die or they pull thru in spite of the "cures". In my opinion people posting such crap advice should be arrested for animal cruelty. I've never posted in a single thread the actual disdain I feel about such posts. I'm not talking about people who say "I tried this and this happened". That's clearly just relaying an experience. I'm talking about posts worded to sound like the person knows the answer. That's cruel. To the fish and the poster.

I know these will never change. Forums were invented for people to act like experts. But when people start feeling they have the right to judge me, in any way, to start a thread devoted to judging me, in any way, I have a right to give my side.

 

[dieselplower]

Fishylove, No they were all beating up on him earlier.

 

[Fishylove]

Ahhh..... See I missed that See there I go again, foot in mouth itis again

 

[Waterbug]

I do think the person being attacked would have a different perspective.

 

[sissy]

hey waterbug invent a pill or liquid and you could get rich .I just wish it was that easy :cheerful: but is anything really ever easy in real life NOPE .Thing is it is there pond and it is never easy to give a solution that will work for everyone and every ones pond .You just have to find what works for you .Try different things and eventually you will find the one thing that works .Some call me old fashioned because I use lava rock but it works for me .I never owned a uv so no clue how or if they work .Most new pond owners never wait long enough for pond to acclimate so they blame people telling them what has worked for them .We only say what worked for us not that it will work for them .I feed 3 or 4 times a week and maybe that helps my pond ,not sure .Maybe 2 filters works for me not sure there either it could be anything .Ponding is not easy when you first start up .Over feeding fish just adds to most problems that I see on here .

 

[Fishylove]

I agree WB, you will have a different perspective, and again I was only reading the one post.

 

[JohnHuff]

All right that's it. What's with all this passive-aggressive Kumbaya stuff? Are we ponders or did I stumble into some guilt racked apologist knitting circle?

A newbie signed in to ask a question and WB asked him to go look it up. C'mon, was that really a good way to treat a newbie? If WB didn't want to answer him, WB had the right to remain silent, the most underused right known to mankind. How would you feel if you were a newbie and that was the answer you got? WB, whatever you do, do NOT volunteer for a suicide hotline. I can see it now:
Caller: I don't deserve to live, give me a reason why I shouldn't kill myself right now.
WB: Lot's of ideas. If you read any thread on why you shouldn't die you will find tons and tons of ideas.

When I started keeping indoor fish, I joined a couple of tropical tank forums, but the members were so snarky and elitist that I left them. So I stopped posting on those forums not because I quit keeping tropical fish, but because their members acted like douches. You guys might remember me starting a thread on that before. I don't want that happening to newbies who come here and my conscience demands that I take a stand on it.

WB deserved any "beatdown" that was given to him but there wasn't any beatdown. One guy let him have a piece of his mind but most of the other responses were backhanded compliments (mind included) which is par for the course whenever WB is concerned.

For the record, forums are not created for people to feel smart. I have found a lot of answers in forums. Just like anything else, you have to separate the wheat from the chaff, but if you are really into a hobby you should read all the ideas, good and bad. We all want our hobby to prosper. It's a lot of fun for us and there isn't any reason why it shouldn't give joy to other people. So let's make the experience an enjoyable one. If you have nothing good to say, Mirandize yourself and keep mum. We've all had that walk into a room full of strangers feeling, make the guy feel welcome and don't act like a douche, if not for that guy for ourselves and for mankind. Make a stand for civil.... OK, I think that's enough...you know what I mean.

 

[Mmathis]

I repeat, NOT a personal attack on you, WB! But an attack on those of us, all of us who come across as less than helpful when it comes to helping others on this forum!

MY MAIN POINT........
I just don't think it's appropriate for any of us to put down a newbie, or ANY other member -- when it involves HI-JACKING a post! If you guys want to fight, then invite yourselves out back to "discuss" your differences! But for the benefit of the person with the problem, STAY ON TOPIC with your posts.

I have only been around a short time, and yes, I get frustrated [right word?] when I see the same questions come up, day after day. I roll my eyes, and shake my head. In fact, I look back at the past year and wonder how you guys tolerated me! But I also want to see this person succeed, learn, and enjoy this wonderful hobby. But what angers me most is that somewhere out there is a fish that could be saved -- are we losing track of that [I know, cue violin music....]

But every single person is at a different stage in their "pond" education. Some of us were prepared enough to do our homework ahead of time, at least having a CLUE of what was going to happen. But not everyone thinks the same way. Yes, a pond looks easy. And there's a LOT more work and science that go into it than the average person would be aware. But guys, don't criticize the newbie that just hasn't been-there, done-that yet! Folks come HERE because they want help. I'm sorry if they leapt before they looked, but chastising them about what they DID WRONG isn't going to help their problem get any better.