Advice for 2 Layer Terraced Pond Flow

[Jaseinatl]

I have a two level pond that is kind of hard to describe. The Upper Pond is a brick above ground pond that is about 18" deep. Water is supplied to it from what appears to be a big terra cotta pipe sticking out of the retaining wall behind it. Reall the terra cotta pipe is the decorative top to a Chimenea that I repurposed to look like an old pipe.

Front the top pond, there is an arched opening about 12"" wide that has a small platform that overlaps the lower pond. This allows water to flow in a sheet to the lower pond (about 4 ft)

The lower pond is also mostly above ground, but it is made of stones. The entire pond is designed to match the retaining wall and the remains of a brick structure sitting on the retaining wall. Where the rocks stop and the hand-made bricks start is mirrored in my pond structure.

The bottom pond has a deep trench beneath and behind the waterfall's entrance into the pond. This allows the pressure from the waterfall to push away any debris that might settle on the pump.

I recently reconfigured everything and I am about to install the final pieces so there's no going back. I was hoping someone could look at my plans to see if they have any concerns or suggestions.

This first image shows the current configuration with the two ponds. Keep in mind they sit at 90 degree angles, but that's not indicated in the cutaway view. The Overhead view in the corner shows the orientation of the two ponds and the current path the water takes from the pump (yellow)

My proposed plan is:

 

[Jaseinatl]

This would allow me to use two pumps and to better control the amount of water going to each pond. The bottom pump would be free to provide enough water to the upper pond that the waterfall will be perfect. Then the upper pond's pump sends less water to the filter for the top pond ensuring that the flow is not choppy or splashy coming into the upper pond.


Is there anything I am missing? Please let me know what you thinik. There's an entirely additional layer to this pond where the float switch on the both ponds shut them down if the water level gets too low. At the same time, it switches on the Sump Pump in the cistern that we collect water in. This automatically refills the ponds, resets the float switches (shuttig off the cistern pump). If there's no water in the cistern, it's float switch shuts it off and nobody gets burned up.

Let me know if you want to see that or how I hope to manage the collection of silt around the lower pond pump.

Thanks for any suggestions or ideas.

Jase

 

[GBBUDD]

The two pumps is out imo. sump pumps never last all that long and when it fails your lower pond will empty out.

the vertocal where yyou show rocks will need to be a water proof area that drains into the lower pond . water will splash and you'll loose water if not.

depending om the flow rate you could be pulling in a lot of air to your pump in the lower and cause it to burn out or reduced water flow

one pump design will require a pump that can push some head pressure

 

[Jaseinatl]

Thanks for the reply. Here's a couple of things to consider:
The pump that I am using is s 1/2 HP Everbilt Waterfall pump that I got at Home Depot for a great price. So great, in fact, that I bought a backup and decided to evaluate the two pump system.
It's rated at 53GPM (0 feet) which produces 3180 GPHJ. The width of my waterfall into the lower pond is only 12" wide, at 200GPH/Inch, I am pretty much covered up to about 8 f according to their chart. It's rated for continuous use and it got good reviews.

There is a ledge where the water falls into the lower pond, extending the water wall a good 6" from the rocks Even so, I have sealed the pond liner from the top pond to the pond linet in the bottom pond and the entire area behind the rocks is protected. The only splash we get is easily captured by the sides of the lower pond.

My plan to avoid pulling air into the pump of the lower pond is by isolating it from the waterfall itself with a rock shelf that sits above the pump. which sits on an elevated piece of concrete under the pond line and wrapped in foam. Directly under the pump is a modified food crate that lifts it another inch but makes sure that any sediment doesn't get to the bottom of the pump.

One of the goals of adding the second pump was that I could lower the volume of water being fed to the upper waterfall. When I push a full 2400 gph through the top waterfall (needed for smooth transition on the lower waterfall), it shoots halfway across the pond and splashes out.. I've experimented with creating a more laminar flow with hundreds of tubes forcing the water to go in the same direction, but it didn't quite work and before long, I was pumping more than was able to fall.

The only solution that actually worked to prevent splash out at full volume for the upper pond was to force the water into a small opening on a large vase partially submerged in the water. Since the place where I have this waterfall has a Mexican Pottery business, the urn worked pretty well. As the water entered the urn, it would splash, but the urn kept all the water in the pond, where it would drain from the multiple holes I put in the submerged part. Occasionally, enough holes would get debris in them that it would fil the urn and it would overflow...it looked nice, but was losing water again.

The other thing that I failed to mention was that we got the optional float switch for the lower pump. I have it wired to trigger the sump pump in our 3000 gallon cistern that we collect water in. So when the water gets low, the pond is refilled by the cistern until the float triggers it to shut off and resume the lower pond pump. I have the upper pump wired piggyback so they both stop if the water gets low and they both start up once the water level rises thanks the cistern.

If the cistern float switch is triggered, it shuts down and all three pumps are protected.

I really appreciate your generous analysis and I hope I have all those bases covered. Thanks again for your reply.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome!

Can you please take some pics of your set-up?

 

[j.w]

@Jaseinatl
Wow that is quite the build! Would love to see it in action

 

[Laaf]

I just saw your post and I am curious about what design you went with, if you finished.

My pump is at the farthest possible end of the pond from my waterfall. If you put the pump just below the waterfall, the rest of the lower pond may not have the best water circulation. Depending on your weather, it is recommended not to put the pump in the deepest area since that will be your warmest area in winter, and having the pump there cools it off. (I do have a pump in my deeper pond area so I break this rule myself).

I do not see a benefit of 2 pumps in line, so close to each other. I would just use one pump, and save the other for a back up. By having 2 pumps inline, you have a 100% failure of circulation if either fails. If you want 2 pumps, maybe run one to the filter at a lower rate and one to the upper pond directly. (Or add a bog filter that flows back into your pond and run one to that)

If you are having trouble because the water is shooting too far out of your creative filter outlet, you might need to switch to a larger outflow from the filter.

 

[addy1]

Any progress? Pictures?

Welcome to the forum!