Desperate. Fish dying

[haver79]

Im just catching up on this thread. E Ellis your pond is beautiful and sorry for your fish issues. I just wanted to add that if I remember correctly when country escape had her fish die off from the farmer spraying, her koi were not affected, only her goldfish. Just mentioning it as I thought you said your biggest fish was a koi and seems to be acting normal.

 

[E Ellis]

I have 2 aerators one for each pond. Don't remember exact size but when I purchased them I got bigger then I needed. There is only one stone on each with a 1/2" hose. Starting to think it's not an air problem because the koi for the size of him he should be affected.

 

[E Ellis]

Thanks haver79. It's starting to look more likely the spraying is the problem. Question is will the fish recover?

 

[CountryEscape]

Hi, E Ellis, so sorry for your loss! As others have said, I had a large goldfish kill 2 year ago. They sprayed the soy bean fields that literally surround my property with airplane. The farmer said no way the fungicide would have caused any fish deaths, but they also were not aware the plane sprayed directly over my whole yard! I realized THAT fact last year, when the same company spread fertilizer pellets over the corn, and spread it over my entire yard, including my ponds. The fertilizer caused no problems.
It's my best guess that the chemicals are what have caused your problems. As I learned 2 years ago, there are specific chemicals that are deadly to goldfish, but koi are not compromised at all. I have a koi pond and a goldfish pond, about 15' apart, but the water does not get circulated between the ponds. So, the water is separate from each other. Only the goldfish died, didn't lose one koi. I researched as best I could with the chemical "ingredients" and although there were words that were roots or endings that were similar to the type of chemical I was told was possibly the culprit, we never were 100% certain that is what it was.
The good news is that after about 10 days, the dying stopped. I lost about 25 goldfish, all sizes. Some of the largest ones are still doing fine, and some of the small ones are growing up. No clue why it targeted some and not others. It sounds exactly what you are experiencing, though.
I guess this isn't giving you any real hard proof of anything, and I apologize for not remembering the name of the chemical that is known to be deadly to goldfish but not harm koi. I am going to send a private message to Dave 54, as I believe he is the one that told me about the specific chemical.
The farmer that farms the fields near me is great, and we are working together, and they are supposed to let me know anytime they plan to spray, but once I had proof the plane was not shutting off the spray or fertilizer going over my yard, that to me was a big indicator that the chemical 2 years ago caused the deaths. The pilot and that company have been warned! The fact I had fertilizer pellets on my back deck, and all over my yard, but not over my horse's pasture was proof enough for me! They sprayed field across the road from my house (the pond is in the back yard, road is in front yard), and on all 3 other sides of the house. I stepped it off, and IF they had not sprayed the yard, they were still closer than regulations recommended for the chemical for "running water". They didn't think of my pond as running water (like a stream), but it has living fish in it, so needed to be considered that way.
Again, I'm working with them, and they are working with me. We will get it figured out like good neighbors should. Good luck to you! I hope the dying has ended, and your fish will come around in time.

 

[cas]

Beautiful pond. I am glad to hear the fish have stopped dying.

 

[Dave 54]

Hi, E Ellis, so sorry for your loss! As others have said, I had a large goldfish kill 2 year ago. They sprayed the soy bean fields that literally surround my property with airplane. The farmer said no way the fungicide would have caused any fish deaths, but they also were not aware the plane sprayed directly over my whole yard! I realized THAT fact last year, when the same company spread fertilizer pellets over the corn, and spread it over my entire yard, including my ponds. The fertilizer caused no problems.
It's my best guess that the chemicals are what have caused your problems. As I learned 2 years ago, there are specific chemicals that are deadly to goldfish, but koi are not compromised at all. I have a koi pond and a goldfish pond, about 15' apart, but the water does not get circulated between the ponds. So, the water is separate from each other. Only the goldfish died, didn't lose one koi. I researched as best I could with the chemical "ingredients" and although there were words that were roots or endings that were similar to the type of chemical I was told was possibly the culprit, we never were 100% certain that is what it was.
The good news is that after about 10 days, the dying stopped. I lost about 25 goldfish, all sizes. Some of the largest ones are still doing fine, and some of the small ones are growing up. No clue why it targeted some and not others. It sounds exactly what you are experiencing, though.
I guess this isn't giving you any real hard proof of anything, and I apologize for not remembering the name of the chemical that is known to be deadly to goldfish but not harm koi. I am going to send a private message to Dave 54, as I believe he is the one that told me about the specific chemical.
The farmer that farms the fields near me is great, and we are working together, and they are supposed to let me know anytime they plan to spray, but once I had proof the plane was not shutting off the spray or fertilizer going over my yard, that to me was a big indicator that the chemical 2 years ago caused the deaths. The pilot and that company have been warned! The fact I had fertilizer pellets on my back deck, and all over my yard, but not over my horse's pasture was proof enough for me! They sprayed field across the road from my house (the pond is in the back yard, road is in front yard), and on all 3 other sides of the house. I stepped it off, and IF they had not sprayed the yard, they were still closer than regulations recommended for the chemical for "running water". They didn't think of my pond as running water (like a stream), but it has living fish in it, so needed to be considered that way.
Again, I'm working with them, and they are working with me. We will get it figured out like good neighbors should. Good luck to you! I hope the dying has ended, and your fish will come around in time.

@E Ellis I think that country escape has the right idea wjhen it comes to your ponds problems I recall the incident that country escape had and it was a swine to solve just as this is now .
Country escape asked me to come in on this today to see what I thought and did I agree with him that it was more than likely that your ponds problmen with the goldish is down to spraying the crops of the field near your pond .just like CCountry escape the koi stayed alive and the goldfish died off some

Dave

 

[CountryEscape]

@Dave 54, can you tell E Ellis what the name of the chemical was that is deadly to goldfish, but doesn't harm koi? I can't for the life of me find that anywhere! That may help him to figure out his puzzle, and to come to maybe a conclusion, and figure out a way to keep it from happening in the future. Thanks!

 

[Gemma]

One question, do you have a UV light?

Excuse me for cutting in but I recently installed a UV light, are there cons I should be aware of?

 

[E Ellis]

I've never had a UV light. I think with a good filter and good water circulation right amount of plants and keeping the filter clean you don't need UV light. It has worked for me for years. This year is an exception I think it has come down to the farmer spraying. The fish seem to be coming around today. Been 2 days now and haven't lost any. Hopefully the worst is over. I would like to thank everyone for their advice through this problem you have been great.

 

[Dave 54]

@Dave 54, can you tell E Ellis what the name of the chemical was that is deadly to goldfish, but doesn't harm koi? I can't for the life of me find that anywhere! That may help him to figure out his puzzle, and to come to maybe a conclusion, and figure out a way to keep it from happening in the future. Thanks!

The chemicals name is superverm it is deadly to goldfish but can safely with the exact gallonage known on the pond be used on koi to cure things like Gyrodractylus or skin flukes as we know it and Dractyloyrus or as we know it Gill flukes

Dave

 

[Meyer Jordan]

The chemicals name is superverm it is deadly to goldfish but can safely with the exact gallonage known on the pond be used on koi to cure things like Gyrodractylus or skin flukes as we know it and Dractyloyrus or as we know it Gill flukes

Dave

I have always been led to believe that use of this chemical on fish was illegal (and dangerous). Reports of burning, loss of slime coat, burned fins, flashing, etc. are quite common.
Evidently others also believe this-
"Treatment for flukes is many and varied, with some of the fluke treatments being illegal and also as equally dangerous to the Koi carp as it is to the flukes. (eg: superverm)."
--Blackwater Creek Koi Farms(web site)
https://www.koisale.com/skin-gill-flukes.html

 

[Dave 54]

I have always been led to believe that use of this chemical on fish was illegal (and dangerous). Reports of burning, loss of slime coat, burned fins, flashing, etc. are quite common.
Evidently others also believe this-
"Treatment for flukes is many and varied, with some of the fluke treatments being illegal and also as equally dangerous to the Koi carp as it is to the flukes. (eg: superverm)."
--Blackwater Creek Koi Farms(web site)
https://www.koisale.com/skin-gill-flukes.html

I think you'll find that it is harmful to we humans if not handled with propper care however koi vet .com has it legal to buy in the UK for treatment of numerous parasites :-

http://www.koivet.com/a_supaverm_closantel_mebendazole_flukes_koi.html

and Sacramento koi has it legally bought in the US:-

http://sacramentokoi.com/supaverm-treatment-procedure/

As such it appears to me that some dealerships do and some dont , however Vets like Erik L Johnson DVM aprove of its use with koi which is the same as here in the UK Meyer .

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

I think some "chemicals" come with the cautionary statement that they are for use on animals not intended for human consumption. Maybe that's where the "legality" issues come in. IDK, just speculating.....

@Dave 54 How is it that a chemical is deadly to GF but not to koi? Does it have something to do with the size of the fish or the physiology or the genetics? I was curious about that when I first read it, since they are in the same family of fish. It's not the same as dogs & cats. Again, just curious, and it is something important to know.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

I think you'll find that it is harmful to we humans if not handled with propper care however koi vet .com has it legal to buy in the UK for treatment of numerous parasites :-

http://www.koivet.com/a_supaverm_closantel_mebendazole_flukes_koi.html

and Sacramento koi has it legally bought in the US:-

http://sacramentokoi.com/supaverm-treatment-procedure/

As such it appears to me that some dealerships do and some dont , however Vets like Erik L Johnson DVM aprove of its use with koi which is the same as here in the UK Meyer .

Dave

With all due respect to "Doc Johnson", The jury is still out on the safety of Superverm, especially long-term.

www.koihealthadvisor.org/kha_images/pdf/fieldguide2004.pdf

"Supaverm:
Know that this product has been accused of burning fins and suppressing the immune system. This accusation has been substantiated by several members of Koiphen. In the UK, there are more reports surfacing regarding the long range effect on the immune system as they have been using it for several years longer than here in the US. Therefore I would
strongly urge that it be avoided. There are several methods for reducing flukes which are much safer. It is not recommended here."
http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?42809-Emergency-Section-Koi-Health-Sticky-2011

"Supaverm ® (not technically approved for use in this country) is a combination of anti-fluke and anti-nematode active ingredients has been used by many koi hobbyists. It is labeled as a sheep dewormer, but has been used in ponds to
remove gill and skin flukes in goldfish and koi. It is widely accepted that it kills goldfish, and it is now known to cause koi deaths, too. Prazi® is therefore, the recommended first choice at this time for removal of gill and skin flukes."
www.nda.agric.za/docs/AAPS/Articles/Aqua/.../koi%20husb.pdf

It would appear to me that the safe and wiser choice here would be the use of a universally accepted (and legal) and effective treatment such as Praziquantel. Why would or should one take the risk of using Superverm?

 

[barryian]

I don't think their lethargic. They act just like they can't get enough air (gasping). They stay in the stream or flow and aeration. The gold ones that have died do look like your photo Mr. Jordan. I did not cover all the pond area just the water when they sprayed the next day it rained. This has been the hottest summer for us ever high 30's plus humidity and for the longest stretch.

High 30's are 100F ... What is your water temp?