Amphibians and the like

fishin4cars

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Actually the zebra mussel is more of a nuisance to humans than they are to the environment. When they first started trying to control them they were blocking the Hydro plants turbines from allowing water to flow through them so they had to be cleaned off to allow the water to flow. A lot of research was done on how to control them but as time passed it was found that they actually helped the eco system as it gave a new food supply to many bird species, the water was clearer so more plants could start back growing. The colonies helped protect small fish therefore helping to build the population for larger fish to eat and improved the over all quality of some of the fish species. It's still a bad idea to release any non-native species as no-one can actually predict the outcome, will it be friend or foe, usually it's bad for at least something in the natural environment.
 
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Actually the zebra mussel is more of a nuisance to humans than they are to the environment. When they first started trying to control them they were blocking the Hydro plants turbines from allowing water to flow through them so they had to be cleaned off to allow the water to flow. A lot of research was done on how to control them but as time passed it was found that they actually helped the eco system as it gave a new food supply to many bird species, the water was clearer so more plants could start back growing. The colonies helped protect small fish therefore helping to build the population for larger fish to eat and improved the over all quality of some of the fish species. It's still a bad idea to release any non-native species as no-one can actually predict the outcome, will it be friend or foe, usually it's bad for at least something in the natural environment.
I respect you opinion fishin, and I'm no expert but from what I've read and heard about zebra mussels, some of what you say is true, but according to National Geographic, They're far more detrimental than they are beneficial. One example they gave related to Lake Erie in particular. As you might know Erie is the shallowest of all the Great Lakes, but does have a deep basin near the middle third of it. Dead zebra mussels collect and decay there and cause huge amounts of salmonella and botulism to occur which kills the fish. Not only that, as they break down during this decay, the bacteria use up huge amounts of oxygen and release other deadly gasses (this is known as the lake Erie Dead Zone). As for keeping the water clearer, a good friend and co-worker of mine is an avid scuba diver, and benefits from the much cleaner water for visibility. He tells me though that you can't dive on a wreck and actually see it anymore as most are completely covered. The clear water means less of the phyto and zoo planktons that some species of fry feed on as that lovely clear water is a result of the mussels filter-feeding on everything. There is the economic effects as you've mentioned such as clogged water intakes and such, but the ecological effect they've had is actually devastating. People who use their boats on the big lakes are now introducing zebra mussels to the smaller inland lakes too, by not thoroughly cleaning their boats and purging their engine cooling water intakes. In this case, I'm quoting you..."usually it's bad".
 
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fishin4cars

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Pugle, I also respect your stand, and most of what you posted from national geographic is also 100% true and I support. The one part I kind of disagree on is, (As you might know Erie is the shallowest of all the Great Lakes, but does have a deep basin near the middle third of it. Dead zebra mussels collect and decay there and cause huge amounts of salmonella and botulism to occur which kills the fish. Not only that, as they break down during this decay, the bacteria use up huge amounts of oxygen and release other deadly gasses (this is known as the lake Erie Dead Zone).
This part is somewhat true, but yet somewhat not true. If you do some research this was already happening before the outbreak. Just not as bad. If you think about it, How would all of them make it to that one area to die and cause the gases to build up? They can't travel to a place to die, So in fact it's happening all over the lake and that area is just a more prominent area of study. For the rest you posted, all 100% true.
From 1989-1994 I worked with the U.S. Corp of engineers. I was a sub-contractor for them and we set up laboratories in many ket areas for researching effects such as these, Duluth Minnesota was the first lab I helped design, and set up for the research on zebra mussels. I also helped in San Francisco California on the Oakland bay for dredge sediment testing, Tenn, Tombigbee water way system in Georgia and Alabama, Miss River basin in Vicksburg Miss, and in Oregon and Washington on way to help the Salmon migrate through the levee systems.
I have done a lot of research on many species of animals and plants and their effects on the environment. After working at Waterways I moved to South Louisiana to work with a team in waterway plant control trying to help eliminate or eradicate non-native plants such as Hydrilla and Water Hyacinths. Both were introduced involuntarily similar to zebra mussels. Each having some good effects but also many bad.
It was while working with the U.S. Corp. of Engineers that I got started in keeping ponds. I'll have to say it was one of the most interesting jobs I ever held, and one I have always looked back on that I wish I pursued. From my learning and research it gave me a far more open mind about the release of non-native species of both animal and plant life. When I purchased my present land a few years ago, many things were considered and adapted to prevent the release of plants and exotic fish from getting into the natural system. I hope more people learn and understand just how bad the effects can be. I wasn't saying the zebra mussels was all good for the eco system, What I was saying was there were some good effects as well as bad. Some species we are NOT so lucky on. Florida is now one of the most screwed up eco systems in the U.S. Many reptiles, plants, fish, and bird species have been released and are growing in numbers, What the effects will be in 10-20-30 years is unknown.
So anyone reading this post, PLEASE, Take note and keep your plants and fish in your ponds or fish tanks, Don't release into the wild. It may seem cruel at the moment to have to put plants in a trash can, or a fish in a freezer bag, but that's far better than being kind and releasing them in the wild.
 
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Mmathis

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(As you might know Erie is the shallowest of all the Great Lakes, but does have a deep basin near the middle third of it. Dead zebra mussels collect and decay there and cause huge amounts of salmonella and botulism to occur which kills the fish. Not only that, as they break down during this decay, the bacteria use up huge amounts of oxygen and release other deadly gasses (this is known as the lake Erie Dead Zone).
This part is somewhat true, but yet somewhat not true. If you do some research this was already happening before the outbreak. Just not as bad. If you think about it, How would all of them make it to that one area to die and cause the gases to build up? They can't travel to a place to die, So in fact it's happening all over the lake and that area is just a more prominent area of study. For the rest you posted, all 100% true.

And we all know that, "..... The lake, it is said, never gives up her dead....."

(Sorry! I know, wrong lake, but still couldn't resist!:joyful:)
 
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tbendl

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Hawaii doesn't have snakes. They have no natural predators on the islands and are banned. My husband was the manager of one of the airfields there and they had to check all of the landing planes to make sure no snakes had caught a ride in the wheel wells or anywhere on the plane. Imagine my surprise when I moved to MS. My first year here we were sitting outside on the Lanai and one fell from the sky... HE FELL FROM THE SKY!! Ok, well he fell from the eave on the roof of the porch but to me it was raining snakes...
 
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Pugle, I also respect your stand, and most of what you posted from national geographic is also 100% true and I support. The one part I kind of disagree on is, (As you might know Erie is the shallowest of all the Great Lakes, but does have a deep basin near the middle third of it. Dead zebra mussels collect and decay there and cause huge amounts of salmonella and botulism to occur which kills the fish. Not only that, as they break down during this decay, the bacteria use up huge amounts of oxygen and release other deadly gasses (this is known as the lake Erie Dead Zone).
This part is somewhat true, but yet somewhat not true. If you do some research this was already happening before the outbreak. Just not as bad. If you think about it, How would all of them make it to that one area to die and cause the gases to build up? They can't travel to a place to die, So in fact it's happening all over the lake and that area is just a more prominent area of study. For the rest you posted, all 100% true.
From 1989-1994 I worked with the U.S. Corp of engineers. I was a sub-contractor for them and we set up laboratories in many ket areas for researching effects such as these, Duluth Minnesota was the first lab I helped design, and set up for the research on zebra mussels. I also helped in San Francisco California on the Oakland bay for dredge sediment testing, Tenn, Tombigbee water way system in Georgia and Alabama, Miss River basin in Vicksburg Miss, and in Oregon and Washington on way to help the Salmon migrate through the levee systems.
I have done a lot of research on many species of animals and plants and their effects on the environment. After working at Waterways I moved to South Louisiana to work with a team in waterway plant control trying to help eliminate or eradicate non-native plants such as Hydrilla and Water Hyacinths. Both were introduced involuntarily similar to zebra mussels. Each having some good effects but also many bad.
It was while working with the U.S. Corp. of Engineers that I got started in keeping ponds. I'll have to say it was one of the most interesting jobs I ever held, and one I have always looked back on that I wish I pursued. From my learning and research it gave me a far more open mind about the release of non-native species of both animal and plant life. When I purchased my present land a few years ago, many things were considered and adapted to prevent the release of plants and exotic fish from getting into the natural system. I hope more people learn and understand just how bad the effects can be. I wasn't saying the zebra mussels was all good for the eco system, What I was saying was there were some good effects as well as bad. Some species we are NOT so lucky on. Florida is now one of the most screwed up eco systems in the U.S. Many reptiles, plants, fish, and bird species have been released and are growing in numbers, What the effects will be in 10-20-30 years is unknown.
So anyone reading this post, PLEASE, Take note and keep your plants and fish in your ponds or fish tanks, Don't release into the wild. It may seem cruel at the moment to have to put plants in a trash can, or a fish in a freezer bag, but that's far better than being kind and releasing them in the wild.
Thanks for that Larkin. Wow! What a background you have! :) Again, as I said, I'm no expert, but I do pay attention. Thanks for teaching me a few facts I didn't know and I think I may have mentioned this in another thread somewhere... this is why I love this forum! I mentioned to my diver friend about this topic, and he was telling me about a water inversion in Lake Erie that happened back in the 60's where some of that dead zone water came up to the surface somehow. There was a fish kill on such a huge scale because of it. But just a clarification on my point about zebra mussels settling in that deep basin... I wasn't suggesting that they swim or drift there, but rather that there are now so many that they seem to colonize there, or near there. A book he lent me about Great Lakes shipwrecks was explaining how even the deepest wrecks are completely or nearly completely covered in them. Some shipwreck conservationists are worried about how well these 1500 to 2000 shipwrecks in the Great Lakes will fare. Again though, thanks for the teaching moment. I love learning new things :)

Paul
 

fishin4cars

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Paul, I'm by no means a expert on these subjects. Just worked around some of this and was able to add to the thread. One of the coolest things I got to see while working out of Duluth was seeing a underwater video of the Edmund Fitzgerald. One of the largest ships to Navigate the great lakes. I never knew it sank in Lake Superior and actually didn't know it was a real ship for many years after hearing the song by Gordon Lightfoot. While we were looking at the video one of the researchers was noting how many zebra mussels were already taking over the ship. This was back in 1992 or 93 and I would say 50% of the ship was covered in mussels. As we pulled anchor to move to the next site one of the crew members put the song on the loud speakers and boy did history slap me in the face. Each and every time the song comes on the radio or this subject comes up that memory comes to life in ways I doubt most will ever imagine.
 
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Now that's nostalgia! That wreck is now officially off limits as it's considered a national grave site, but I do know the ship's bell was removed. If I remember correctly from the book it lies just 600 metres inside Canadian waters. A sad Great Lakes maritime disaster to be sure. We've covered it all from frogs to shipwrecks...lol

Thanks for the video Larkin. I've not seen that one before.
 
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The grey tree frogs are out. Try as I might, I can never locate them visually, but I sure can hear them. In the back yard, the white ash closest to the house has got to have 8 to 10 of them, and the one at the back of the yard seems to have 6 or so. Seeing as their song is somewhat quiet, it's fairly easy to home in on a general area of the tree that they're in, and that's how I estimate the number of them. I've seen them in my pond last year during egg laying time, but darn they blend in well with the trees. I was going to post a little audio clip I recorded to share with you, but it seems .mp3's are not an "allowed" file extension :(
 

addy1

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I just do a dark video and record the sound. They are noisy little froggies
 

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