New Florida Pond Questions

[craig]

Total newbie here, so be patient please.

Design Decisions:
I am going to build a "formal" pond (rectangular) surrounded by a patio area. Planning on about 6' X 9' X 3.3' (40" = 5 cinder blocks high), a couple plant shelfs on ends that are 24" deep, approx 1000 gallons. Cinder block walls with a 45 mil EDPM liner. I plan on having the whole patio slightly raised to keep water running away from the pond. I plan to build a sitting wall around the pond approx 18" high, so no one accidentally goes for a swim. The water level will be at the patio (ground) level, so this isn't really a raised pond, just a pond surrounded by a short block wall. I know that I have Racoons in the yard, I seem them all the time. I am hoping that the 18" wall, and straight pond walls will keep them out of the pond. I will also put some solar landscape lighting around as a deterrent. Probably a submersible Laguna pump and a DIY filter.

QUESTIONS: Do you think some stupid racoon will fall into the pond and then shred up my liner trying to get back up a straight wall?

Any issues you see right off with this plan?

Florida questions:
Am I safe with a pump that turns the water over once per hour in the Florida sunshine (1000 gph pump on 1000 gal pond)? Since I do not have to worry about freezing this will be running 24-7-365.
This will be a multi weekend project finishing up by around Thanksgiving.
When do I put in plants? Will they die off over the winter in Central Florida? We get a few nights a year that go below freezing, but not for long enough to form Ice on anything. Do I wait till spring? When should I add Fish?

Thanks for any input.
Craig

 

[rdk]

I had a big time raccoon problem. I also have a rectangular pond. I put in a heavy fence cover over my pond. No more raccoon problem. RDK

 

[addy1]

My other pond is in arizona, hot! it turns over once an hour it works well with temperature.

Plants, not sure, but in arizona they grow year round and we do get a little cold.

I have raccoons here (maryland) with the new pond, it is deep enough the fish (goldies) so far are safe.

Maybe have a climb out area in your pond for anything that does fall in.

Plant shelves might make it easy for herons to fish your fish. I have seen a lot of herons in florida.

Hope this helps a little.

 

[hewhoisatpeace]

I wouldn't build the shelves in. Straight sided ponds are very difficult for predators to access your fish, plus will give you larger pond volume for the same amount of liner. You can always set upside down milk crates to hold your marginals or lillies. This winter, I'm actually going to be removing shelves from my pond, hope to get another 3-400g with no added liner.

 

[lauraleellbp]

I was originally planning on a plant shelf for my new pond build too, but decided to nix that due to raccons and herons. I'm going to use milk crates for plant stands instead. The crates should also provide good hiding spots for my fish from birds, I hope. My pond is going from 400gal to 800 gal by losing the shelf, too.

Don't you get freezes every year in Orlando? I think there are some plants you should be able to overwinter in your pond, but probably not tropicals. You might try www.davesgarden.com if you have any particular plant species in mind, see what other people in your area report as far as their hardiness.

I can't speak from much experience yet as this will be my own first pond, but I'm planning on a 2000gph Laguna pump. I'm told it will be more than enough turnover, but that's what I'll need to run my waterfall. How are you planning on returning the water from your filter? If you're going with a waterfall, the gph you'll need to run that is something to factor in.

When to add fish depends on how many fish and what kind you're adding. I'd start off with just some minnows (mosquitofish/gambusia) to get the cycle started and take care of mosquitos, and then get a master freshwater test kit, add fish very slowly, and keep a sharp lookout for any ammonia or nitrite spikes. Do you understand the basics of establishing the nitrogen cycle?

 

[craig]

Wow, thanks for all the inputs!

Using Milk crates sounds like a good idea, I was thinking without the shelfs I would need to stack cinder blocks in there. I will skip the plant shelfs and get the greater water volume, that should put me close to 1300 gal (104" X 72" X 40"). Should make smoothing the liner easier as well.

I had read about the use of netting to keep racoons out, I was hoping to have the design such that I would not need them. A climb out area sounds interesting to let something get out if it falls in, hopefully saving the liner from sharp claws, but anything I can think of as a climb OUT would also be a climb IN and a perfect fishing perch!

Would a racoon be stupid enough to jump down an 18" wall into a 4 ft deep pond and then not be able to get back out? I know they are pretty smart, they used to unscrew jars that we accidentally left out when camping in upstate New York!

No waterfall to worry about, I will go with a Laguna Max Flo 6000, PT-344 pump, should give me about 1200-1300 gph which will work well with a 55 gal DIY filter.

We do get below freezing, down to 28 once last winter, but not for long enough to form ice. I do not have anywhere to store plants over the winter, so they will need to stay in the pond (no tropicals). I do not want to have to buy new ones every year if I can avoid it unless they are really cheap.

I am familiar with cycling a fish tank, I have had them for years, however, I have never tried to put a fish into a 40 degree pond. I didn't know if I needed to wait until spring when the water gets warmer before adding them.

Thanks again.
Craig

 

[shakaho]

Hi Craig,

I'm in Winter Springs, so we are practically neighbors. You have some great ideas. I built my first mini pond this spring, and did almost everything wrong. I did read up on making a pond before I started, but not everyone points out that vertical walls of sand won't stay vertical when it rains, and I didn't think of that. Fortunately, I had just put in the liner when it rained. So I got to re-dig and put in blocks. I carefully made the top of my pond level with the ground, and when we had a heavy rain shortly after I had added some little goldfish, watched horrified as the entire area flooded so that my fishies could have been washed right out. They didn't, but I laid unlined pavers all around the pond so high water could drain away, but fish were contained. You have already figured these things out.

There was a water garden at my house when I moved there just outside the front entrance. It consisted of a rather large preformed liner (which was not level and I could not level) with a waterfall the previous owner had built from waste concrete and pieces of artificial rock cemented together. If totally surrounded by and filled with vegetation, it looked pretty. When largely bare in the winter, it looked awful. Everything grew like crazy with all the water in the area, and maintaining the pond (or the outside of the house in the area) was like farming a jungle. So when I decided to make a fish pond, my first priority was to pave around it so that I could take care of the pond and my house. Plants go in pots. I put plant shelves, a cement block wide, on two sides of the pond. That was a mistake. It decreased my water volume and the shelves were too narrow for large pots and the wrong (fixed) height for most pots.

I will rebuild this winter, making the pond a little larger, raising the edges to keep runoff out, and eliminating the plant shelves. I am looking at some of those stacking plastic shelf units to use for plants. The "posts" on these could be cut to the appropriate height for the plants they support. My water lily is in a plastic oil drain pan that I plan to set on a low shelf in the middle of the pond to make a fish hiding place. I'm considering making a bog at one side of the pond (but outside of the pond) for shallow water plants.

Some of your plants will grow fine during the winter. Most will survive. A lot like what you grow on land. I stocked my pond with $0.13 goldies from Petsmart a week or so after I finished the pond, but I did have a little filter box from the old water garden, with bacteria already in place. I figured I had room for 5 goldfish, so I bought 10, thinking half would die. I lost 1 a day for the first three days, and the remaining 7 have thrived. Then I added a couple of irresistible shubunkins, so I need to enlarge my pond. I wouldn't hesitate to get some pond goldfish this fall. They have plenty of what passes for summer in the north before it gets chilly.

Raccoons are smart and persistent. Make a cover for your pond before they find out that there are tasty little fishies to catch.

Sharon

 

[craig]

Sharon:

Hi Neighbor!

Since you are so close by, do you happen to know good places to get pond plants locally? I work in south Orlando, and live in Lake Mary (nice long drive on I4).

Also, have you found anywhere with a selection of goldfish? I see you found some Shubunkins. I would also like something other than the standard goldfish, maybe some Sarasas or others.

Thanks,
Craig

 

[shakaho]

Craig,

In the Orlando area, it's easy to find someone to build you a pond, but it sure is hard to find the stuff to do it yourself. It's easy to find koi, but not so easy to find good goldfish. I got one shubunkin at Walmart in Casselberry (on 436). They seem to take better care of their fish than most pet stores or departments, and this one looked (and has remained) very healthy. The other I got at Petsmart in Oveido (on Red Bug Road). This fish was also healthy. I bought most of my plants there. I haven't been to the Lake Mary Petsmart, but the one in Casselberry (on 17-92) is horrible. Here is my Walmart fish, "Pretty Baby": http://s822.photobucket.com/albums/zz146/shakaho/Shubunkin/ It's in the pond now, bigger, and the fins are much longer. I think this fish is gorgeous.

There's a quality fish store on Ronald Reagan just south of 434 called Fishy Business. They have a few goldies, often grotesque "fancies," but I've seen some shubbies and comets that were nice. They are expensive. They have plants which are also expensive,

Pontastic Water Garden on South OBT has plants, koi, and a lot of pond supplies. When I was there, I was looking for something specific that they didn't have, but I think they probably have the best "pond store" in the area.

There's a place called Aqua Mart in Titusville that I plan to check out some time. They claim to have pond supplies and fish.

Sharon

 

[lauraleellbp]

The same principles apply with stocking your pond as do stocking an aquarium- just the benefit is there's such a relatively huge volume of water that wastes don't accumulate to affect water quality at nearly the same rate. If you start off with a 1/2 dozen or so small goldfish and some minnows now, and don't add any large fish till next spring (after the water temps will stay over 60F) then I don't think you should have any issues with cycling the pond.

 

[pondbuilder13]

Well I have never had a racoon problem before but we had a heron who sat in the middle of our pond and I came out with a gun cause he was having my fish for breakfast And he went to fly away cause I scared him and his feet( claws) got stuck in my liner and tore a hole clean through it

 

[addy1]

I have climb out area on my pond, but not doing koi, just don't want to find dead critters in the pond. Would break my heart. We have herons, fox, rabbits, turtles, frogs, raccoons, toads, squirrel, deer, on and on. Live in a rural area.

The pond is deep enough to protect the fish if they are smart, around 5 feet, slowly rising to shallow.