New to bottom drains

[cris1973]

Good morning,

I was wondering if someone could answer a question that's going around in my head for me??

I have just moved house and starting to plan out our new pond, our previous pond was pump fed into a kockney 5000 filter and now i want to go gravity fed, the pond will be roughly 6' deep and fed into hopefully a nexus 220 filter and return via a water blade or a return below water level (haven't made my mind up on this yet). The filter will be housed in a shed along side the pond with the water level in the filter the same as the pond. There will be a pump after the filter going into a UV light then return to pond.

My question is..... If there is an major leak anywhere on the system would the pond totally empty itself or would it stop pumping if the water level got to a certain level eg the water level fell below the level of the filter system?

Sorry if it sounds a dumb question

 

[mrsclem]

Are you only planning on the one pump after the filter? Not sure how that will work as most filters have the pump before them. If you have your pump in the pond and pump to the filter as long as the pump is not on the bottom of the pond, any leak will only empty as far as the pump.

 

[cris1973]

This is going to be gravity fed system so the pump will be after the filter, pulling the water through rather than pushing the water to the filter.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! There is no such thing as a dumb question.

You have posted this same question in another thread. I’m not sure that most on here are familiar with the equipment you have referenced, but most of us don’t use BD’s (bottom drains). We see these used mostly on DKP’s (dedicated koi ponds). You might get more help if you checked out the site KOIPHEN.COM, as the members there are much more familiar with that type of set-up and might be more likely to give you advice based on experience.

But to answer your question — IDK. But I have heard many horror stories about ponds completely draining due to a “break” in the system. Now, whether those leaks are related directly to a BD, again, IDK. I don’t have BD’s, and I use a submerged pump. The advice I received here was to elevate the pump from the bottom level of the pond. That way, if there was a malfunction, the pump could/would only drain down to that point.

You say you are going from “pump fed” to “gravity fed.” Not sure that BD’s work with gravity fed systems — my ignorance, sorry.

 

[cris1973]

Something like this...

 

[cris1973]

Hello and welcome! There is no such thing as a dumb question.

You have posted this same question in another thread. I’m not sure that most on here are familiar with the equipment you have referenced, but most of us don’t use BD’s (bottom drains). We see these used mostly on DKP’s (dedicated koi ponds). You might get more help if you checked out the site KOIPHEN.COM, as the members there are much more familiar with that type of set-up and might be more likely to give you advice based on experience.

But to answer your question — IDK. But I have heard many horror stories about ponds completely draining due to a “break” in the system. Now, whether those leaks are related directly to a BD, again, IDK. I don’t have BD’s, and I use a submerged pump. The advice I received here was to elevate the pump from the bottom level of the pond. That way, if there was a malfunction, the pump could/would only drain down to that point.

You say you are going from “pump fed” to “gravity fed.” Not sure that BD’s work with gravity fed systems — my ignorance, sorry.

Many thanks, sorry about that, i posted in the wrong section... I will head over there and see what they say.. Thanks again

 

[Mmathis]

In order for the water to feed back into the pond by gravity, wouldn’t the filter need to be located higher than the pond?

 

[cris1973]

not with this setup, the filter is at the same water level as the pond as water find its own level, the pump is attached to the outlet of the filter and pushes the water through the UV light and back into the pond, this then draw more water through the bottom drain creating a cycle of water.

 

[j.w]

@cris1973

 

[Jhn]

Looking at your drawing and as you said water seeks its own level, even with a bottom drain the water will only get down to where the leak is, if the power is off.

If the power is on and water is escaping somewhere and the bottom drain is the feed to the filter system, then yes the pump would eventually empty the pond.

 

[brokensword]

Something like this...
View attachment 136637

So, in this case, if the drain clogs even partially, you're putting stress on your pump to continue pulling water. (Btw, pumps are better at pushing than they are at pulling water) I could see this happening and your filter being starved of water. Is this a concern? I realize the pump can be stressed whether in the pond pulling or pushing, but then you're only affecting the pump, not the filter as well. Also, from doing a gravity fed bog, I realized I wasn't getting the same amount of water being filtered as I was when pushing water directly to my bog (filter). I see your design as similar with the pull technique. Is there a specific reason you want to have more plumbing and parts? Is there some aspect of filter gravity feed back to pond you don't like? Just curious.

 

[GBBUDD]

You can have check valves to help isolate areas from such an event but water will flow in any direction through a pipe until it reaches the leak and levels out. The huge advantage to your design idea is you can have all penetration's to the pond visible within your pump house . We are hardly that lucky in a natural pond setting. i did install main drains in my pond but only use them in the summer My pump is at water level but if i had a pipe fail the water would drain out till it leveled out.

So, in this case, if the drain clogs even partially, you're putting stress on your pump to continue pulling water

With main drains at a 6' depth in the usa we must have two main drains on the same line where both can handle the full draw of the pump. so if a child ever got close to it they could not be held down by the suction. and the second drain 36" away would get the suction draw as the kid was blocking the other but was not held down by it.

 

[WaterGardener]

We put a float switch in the skimmer. If the water falls to a certain level, the switch is activated and the pump shuts off.

 

[BobDE]

I have 2 pumps in my pond. One is submersible and in a skimmer box. It feeds the waterfall. The second is a system similar to yours. I have a barrel in the ground. The bottom drains feed into the top of the barrel. The pump pulls water from the bottom of the barrel and some of it runs through a UV filter. I have a ball valve so I can adjust how much water goes through the UV filter. The rest goes through a bypass pipe. Then it goes back into the pond under water. The fish love playing in that hard flow. They swim up to it from the side and when they get into it, they are pushed away at a high rate of speed. I really enjoy watching the show!

Leaks are a part of ponding. I can't imagine where the leak could be that it would drain the pond. I have never been concerned with that.

I would recommend that you add a ball valve on the on the return line with a separate pipe so you can drain water from the pond if needed.

I also drilled a large hole in the middle of each drain so leaves can get through. ( I used plastic shower drains from Lowes! ) I also put a small laundry bag on each pipe going to the barrel to catch the leaves and other debris. I live in the woods, so I have to be conscious of leaves and other debris.

 

[GBBUDD]

There is an easy way to have a bottom drain WITHOUT MAKING A HOLE IN YOUR LINER. even with using a external pump. If you have seen how a snorkel and Centipede bog is made its in the same idea.
Dig out your pond and once you have your design made. You then dig in a trench for your piping . This does not need to be skin tight to the size of the pipe , I'd actually say your better off a bit larger. One that trench is cut it both the bottom of the pond and the side of the walls. Place your liner and make sure that the liner with its multitude of folds doesn't fill your trench if it does make the trench a bit bigger. Once you get the size and liner set . Place your pipe in the trench and start covering in with some rock. Walla bottom drain plumbed properly to the bottom but all piping is within the liner but is out of sight.