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waynefrcan

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500lbs of rock & cement blocks removed from my all rock pond after the cleanout. Hope ye all like it?? :LOL: :LOL:
 

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waynefrcan

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Awww...thought it would please the die hard bare bottom liner people at this forum :)

So now it's your guys turn, add some darn rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :LOL:

Give and take?
 
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waynefrcan

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Warm 3 month winters in BC western Canada weather is like much of USA, so just call him a yanke doodle dandy :razz:
 

fishin4cars

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500# of removing rock and cleaning does NOT look like any fun at all. I love my rocks, all 19 TONS that I have brought in and hand set 75% of. Move them ONE time and where they land is pretty much were they stay. Finally got a new flagstone installer so Maybe, just possibly, cross our fingers, no black cats, knock on wood all that stuff, we can have a flag stone patio by the first of the year? LOL I just can't get in and out of my pond cleaning rocks, It would probably take 2-3 tons to completely cover to the point of not seeing any liner. I'll have to enjoy yours and use my rocks for the walkways, patio, waterfalls and flower beds. But if you really like rocks wait until you see the two I got coming in the near future. A friend gave me a 750# green white and goldish metal looking rock, the metal is only in a few spots like tiny veins, but it's really cool, Just trying to figure out how to get from his back yard and get it out to a trailer. The second will be the biggest rock on the property. A whopping #3000 Monstor. My boss is letting me have it for four Saturday days pay. LOL, so I'll have to work a full month for a single rock! LOL, Thank goodness I only work for him 9-3 on Saturdays. 24 hours of changing water in his ponds, cleaning filters, doing some water test and selling a few items, does sound better than a months worth of work. :LOL:
 
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OMG Larkin, too funny! Hubby has a buddy that has a huge pile of rocks sitting in his yard (when I say huge, I am gonna guess a tractor trailer sized load)... ya know those PERFECT rocks for securing a liner kind of perfect LOL... he keeps asking about our old pickup... he wants the engine, but the rest of the truck just wont die...
 

waynefrcan

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Wow big rocks you will have Larkin.

Forever the rock bottom people have said "number 1 mistake made was to show any liner". Now I have gaps everywhere after dumping that pile. But I don't care. Have just one layer now at bottom instead of 2 -3 layers. Still looks great and liner is protected from any heron visits.
 
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Rocks and ponds do not make good bed partners you are never able to clean them propperly or in and around then to much detritus can pla havoc with your water perameters as well as harnour some nasty stuff all harmful to your fish
Its better to clear your pond of them .

rgrds

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Rocks and ponds do not make good bed partners you are never able to clean them propperly or in and around then to much detritus can pla havoc with your water perameters as well as harnour some nasty stuff all harmful to your fish
Its better to clear your pond of them .
That depends entirely on your setup. I have large river rocks stacked around the edges of my pond. I have minnows and weather loaches who make their homes in those rocks, and keep them well cleaned. The bottom of my pond is covered in sand... When dead plants and leaves start to pile up, I just take a net with larger holes and scoop up a pile of sand. The sand falls out of the net, and the leaves get taken out. A bare liner is not an absolute necessity if the additions serve a purpose and you stock your pond with these features in mind.
 

waynefrcan

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Rocks and ponds do not make good bed partners you are never able to clean them propperly or in and around then to much detritus can pla havoc with your water perameters as well as harnour some nasty stuff all harmful to your fish
Its better to clear your pond of them .

rgrds

Dave
I think I haved proved you wrong, rocks can be cleaned up properly if done correctly.
 
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We ourselves have a bottom drain and in the UK koi world and formal pond setting are not used for the reasons I previously posted if you have a rockbottom pond then kudos to you but it is a fact that the gaps left by the pebbles can and do harbour many things nasty thats why I posted.
I have yet to understand The American love for pebbled ponds .
Why make things harder on yourselves when trying to clean the pond which you cannot do properly unless the rocks are removed for cleaning .
A green bottom to a pond looks just as natural you are garenteed the bottom drain takes care of any detritus fish poo etc by seperating it off in the vortex ready to be flushed away to drain .
Can you say 100% cross your heart that your pond is spotlessly clean ready for the run up to winter leaving nothing nasty that can attack your fish ?
We can .................

rgrds

Dave
 

waynefrcan

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I think most American Ponders hate rocked ponds on bottom, check the forum.

I can say that after the cleanout, the pond is 85% clean. Rocks don't have to be removed. Where I live the liner does not algae up, this could also be due to the 11,400 gal/hr pumps, 10,000 gal/hr skimmer boxes and the 10,000 gal/hr waterfall filters with tons of bio pads and bacteria culture material.
 
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Can you say 100% cross your heart that your pond is spotlessly clean ready for the run up to winter leaving nothing nasty that can attack your fish ?
No, I can say 100% guaranteed that my pond in fact is NOT spotlessly clean at any point in time. I don't do major cleanups preparing for Winter. I try to net up about 95% of the leaves, and the rest stay in the bottom until I clean out the sand in the Spring. I have string algae growing under the ice, I have fish waste collecting in the pea-gravel in the river area, and I leave my pumps running year-round.

In the last 5 years, I have only ever lost one fish to unknown causes. I do everything wrong by conventional wisdom, yet my water stays clear, my fish are strong and healthy, and the worst problem I have is trying to keep the plants from outgrowing the pond. This setup works for me, but it could be a complete disaster to someone else. My point is not that rocks are perfectly OK, but rather that everyone's pond is different, and that rocks can work just find in the right situation.
 

waynefrcan

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You tell him girl!!!!!
 

fishin4cars

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No, I can say 100% guaranteed that my pond in fact is NOT spotlessly clean at any point in time. I don't do major cleanups preparing for Winter. I try to net up about 95% of the leaves, and the rest stay in the bottom until I clean out the sand in the Spring. I have string algae growing under the ice, I have fish waste collecting in the pea-gravel in the river area, and I leave my pumps running year-round.

In the last 5 years, I have only ever lost one fish to unknown causes. I do everything wrong by conventional wisdom, yet my water stays clear, my fish are strong and healthy, and the worst problem I have is trying to keep the plants from outgrowing the pond. This setup works for me, but it could be a complete disaster to someone else. My point is not that rocks are perfectly OK, but rather that everyone's pond is different, and that rocks can work just find in the right situation.
I agree with this on so many levels. It doesn't matter if you have rocks on the bottom or not. Your going to have some build up of muck on the bottom no matter what you do if you have any fish load and plants. That's a simple given fact. How each individual address's this determines more on the success of the pond. NOT if it has rocks or does not have rocks on the bottom. I do feel in most cases though that rock bottom ponds are more likely to have slow hidden problems over time and they add to the maintenance required to keep them in top condition.
We ourselves have a bottom drain and in the UK koi world and formal pond setting are not used for the reasons I previously posted if you have a rockbottom pond then kudos to you but it is a fact that the gaps left by the pebbles can and do harbour many things nasty thats why I posted.
I have yet to understand The American love for pebbled ponds .
Why make things harder on yourselves when trying to clean the pond which you cannot do properly unless the rocks are removed for cleaning .
A green bottom to a pond looks just as natural you are garenteed the bottom drain takes care of any detritus fish poo etc by seperating it off in the vortex ready to be flushed away to drain .
Can you say 100% cross your heart that your pond is spotlessly clean ready for the run up to winter leaving nothing nasty that can attack your fish ?
We can .................

rgrds

Dave
Can you say with 100% certainty you have no build up in your system? filters, vortex's, streams, waterfalls, etc. etc. All can trap a given amount of crude that builds up. Actually I don't think American ponders on the whole really go with rock bottom ponds. Most rock bottom ponds are on the aquascape design, are regular goldfish ponds/Not Koi ponds, or are built by novices that haven't learned how to maintain ponds over a long term.

Wayne, I hope not to offend you but I would like to speak my opinion on your rock bottom pond. I'm still in debate if I like the look or not. Again this is just my observation and my opinion of the overall look. It doesn't look natural. The rings of rocks and the sizes the way you have to stack doesn't leave a natural look IMO. I can't say I don't like the look of a rock bottom pond. I have seen several over the years that highly appealed to me. I do think yours is unique, It different and if it works for you and makes you happy, THAT's what counts! I have done rock bottom ponds, My last one was and it was a specific reason, I simply had to get more weight on the liner or during heavy rains my liner would float up. I loved the look but after two years of maintaining I decided Not to do that with these two ponds I have now. It simply just became a to big and dreaded chore that HAD to be done!
If I do ever build another pond with the thought of rocks covering the bottom I think I would try Waterbugs idea/design. Mortar them in place! No gaps to hide the crude, a bottom drain to help eliminate build up on the bottom, easier maintenance with a more natural look. Again, I would like to say, these are my opinions, everyone is different. If I thought I could build a pond that was a successful design and had the budget to do so I probably would. I do like the look. But with my neck and back condition, limited help, and my budget already blown way over what it was set out to be. It might be a long time before I build a pond of that style. Besides, I have a natural pond in the front yard, Been adding rocks to it for the last few weeks for spawning beds for the bass and bream. Guess that will have to be my rock bottom pond for now! :)
 

waynefrcan

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No problem, I took the "master pond builder" off my member title lol.
 
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