Applied Tetra AlgoRem to pond, 12hrs later almost all fish dead.


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Hi all,

Here is a little background, apologies if this goes long. It might help someone clarify the issue.

I have a 4,000l pond here in the UK. I have had a number of issues with the water quality for a few weeks and nothing I have tried has remedied the issue. I have a pump in submerged in the water going to a filter outside the pond. The water is then recirculated into the pond via a small waterfall.

The water has been like pea soup for weeks. And thick green algae has collected on the waterfall. Waterflow has been terrible. I changed the old filter for a new Jebao 7w UV filter. This appeared to start clearing the water, but the quality then got worse a few days later. The flow out of the waterfall then slowed almost to a stop. The pump had some issues with weeds growing into the impeller, so I removed those but I think it had unfortunately done enough damage to the motor so i then replaced the pump for a Fishmate 4000. Once again, waterflow improved minimally (not to the prior levels a few months previous) but within a day or two, once again, everything seized up. I have cleaned out the pump and filter numerous times however the result lasted for a matter of hours.

I bought some Tetra Crystal Water from Amazon however the packaging stated not to use to treat algae. So I purchased the AlgoRem as a replacement, and applied the treatment last night around 7.30pm (possibly a fatal mistake?). I came to the fish this morning at 7am and they were all floating on the surface (and just to make matters worse, the water was as bad as it was the day before).

The Koi were all of considerable size, and they were my Dads before he passed away a couple of years ago. I have lost one fish about a month ago and another has recently died but not sure if it is related to poor water quality or age (I cannot remember when my Dad purchased the fish, nor how old they were when he bought them).

Pretty devastated to say the least. Could this have happened due to the time of night when I applied the treatment? Or has there been an adverse chemical reaction? I am still relatively new to pond care so any advice would be great.

Thanks
Tom
 
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@sharpie this is the second case in a week where people have not followed the instructions on the bottle which clearly states to treat in the morning .
How did you apply the AlgoRem to the pond please ?
Did you put extra areation on the pond ?
Did you apply the Algo\rem in a mix of pond water from a watering can covering the whole surface of your pond?
You cant if treating the pond at 7:30 pm have kept an eye on your koi .
I'm sad for you that you've lost some of your late fathers koi however this shouldnt be the case could you please tell me all your water perameters please i;e Ammonia , Nitrite, Nitrate,Ph , Kh nd I shall try to help you ?
Did you last winter clean the bottom of your pond and clean your filtration in the late Autumn [something you must always do] did you then do the same thing this spring ?
It wasnt old age that took your koi as they can live upwards of 80+years or more my guess is that through bad water conditions you've either had your koi succum to either a Parasite or bacterial infections .
How much do you acctually know about keeping koi please be brutally honest so I know your either an accolplished koi keeper or a newbie to the hobby after being left the koi by your father ?
Weve used this product safely on and off over the years , you should have vigorously shaken the bottole then added the contents of the lid in the correct amount to the pond around 7am in the morning , if your pond doesnt have a bottom drain then you should have scooped the clumps of algae from the waters edge going out to check the pond every half hour or so.
If you have suffered alott of rain recently then you should have done a partial water change prior to your treating the pond and as previosly said added extra airstones to the pond.
Before your Father passed do you know if he ever purchased any books about koi keeping oor fish heath issues ?
If so did you read any of them ?
I will try to help you as best our 30 years of koi keeping knowledge goes but you'll need to follow my exact instructions to see if we can save the koi you have less .
Please answer all my above questions Asap.

Dave
 
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Hi,

In short, no I have no prior knowledge of keeping koi, nor did my dad. He had them for a number of years and never had any issues. I have had them myself for a year with no issues.

I suspect people will call me an idiot for not putting the treatment into the water in the morning, however, not being an expert I figured this was so you could see the results in daylight opposed to anything chemically related to night conditions, which is obviously now a big mistake. I followed the instructions on the bottle for adding the treatment.

I have no means of checking the water perameters (again, expecting to be called an idiot here). There was no visible clumps of algae in the pond this morning.

Obviously this is massively rookie mistake here. A very expensive lesson learnt here.

I appreciate your detailed response.
 
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I should note that only 1 fish survived and i am pretty sure it wont be alive when i return this evening. i have put it into a seperate container with an airstone to provde oxygen. however it was upside down and laying sideways this morning.
 
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sharpie I've done a number of articles in the articles section to help out the rookie fish and koi keeper but I say to all rookie fish keepers to buy a few books and read them thus attaining some knowledge on the subject I wouldnt call you an idiot my friend we all make mistakes as rookies even I did [I was the death of goldfish before my partner bought me my first fish book] the rest is history 30 years on and we are still going strong .
If your willing to learn thn I'm willing to teach but its a very steep learning curve to say the very least .
If the last koi passes then we could start again with a clean slate if you wish ?

Dave
 
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thanks Dave, absolutely. Unfortuantely when things like this happen, it forces a change in attitude, which is certainly the case here. Naivety is the cause but certainly shouldnt be my excuse. I am going to certainly start again, and will take the correct measures going forward to try and ensure future issues like this don't present themselves. This, all in all, has been a very expensive lesson learnt. That being said, money isnt relevant to the value in enjoyment of having the fish that I get, plus obviously the sentimental value of them. And of course, the health of the fish being the primary factor.

I shall be sure to check out your articles, thankyou. Do you have any recommendations for books to get me started?
 
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@sharpie , so sorry for the loss of your fish. You aren't the first one to be so focused on clearing the water and accidentally killing your fish.
 
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thanks Dave, absolutely. Unfortuantely when things like this happen, it forces a change in attitude, which is certainly the case here. Naivety is the cause but certainly shouldnt be my excuse. I am going to certainly start again, and will take the correct measures going forward to try and ensure future issues like this don't present themselves. This, all in all, has been a very expensive lesson learnt. That being said, money isnt relevant to the value in enjoyment of having the fish that I get, plus obviously the sentimental value of them. And of course, the health of the fish being the primary factor.

I shall be sure to check out your articles, thankyou. Do you have any recommendations for books to get me started?
@sharpie yes I have my friend lets start with the first two books I ever read both are on fish health habitat etc one is a book you will find in our list of books in our Library article , where you will find the relivent titles Authors names and those all important ISBN numbers so if I give you both titles you'll be able to go up to the article read down the list and come up with the respective information , the first book is called "Fish Health" which is an Interpet book , the other Koi Health again it is listed in the list of books as are all the respective names an ISBN numbers both are avialable on Amazon books UK quite cheaply too .
You'll also need an API Pond Master water perameter test kit and an API Nitrate test kit .
You'll need water declorinator as well as extra air hose and airstones preferlapy silicone pipe work .
You'll need to put in place a regular maintenance proceedures on both pond , filters and pumps.
You'll also need a a Qaurentine fasility for any new koi to spend up 4-8 weeks in prior to them going into the main population of your pond .

Dave
 
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@sharpie I'm also going to do an article on the the correct use of AlgoRem you being the second person in two days to make a mistake with it .
Then other pond treatments and cominations of treatments, so that nobody has another accident with any of the products we in the fish world use to treat and cure our fish with. But all this is going to take me a little time to complete especially after not being well these last 6 months [ I still dont have much in the way of energy as of yet].
However many thanx for bringing the idea into existance in my old brain my friend (y) .


Dave
 
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No one here will add to your misery by shaming you @sharpie. You'll find many here willing to help and @Dave 54 is one of the best with his many years of experience and store of knowledge.

So sorry about your fish, but onward and upward it is!
 
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It sounds like you have two different types of algae, both are easily taken care of. For the algae in your waterfalls area use sodium percarbonate. If you do a search on this site you will see what to do with it. The second type, the pea green stuff can be killed easily with the proper UV light. It sounds to me like the light you bought is not up to the job. All UV lights bulbs are not the same. I have posted a link several times in the last few weeks that goes into great detail about them. If you can't find the links for the sodium percarbonate or the UV lights let me know.
 
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Wow what a horror story. I can feel your pain from here. So sorry to hear.
I recently added Algerem, i did 4 things wrong. First i didn't probably mix into a container, 2nd just finished raining, 3rd it was evening and worst i added to much (extra 20mls).
Water just instantly turned cloudy white (oh boy) but i was unaware of any danger, i thought it was normal.
Luckily none of my fished died, they're tough little fecks. I had them in tap water for a month before i start treating for chlorine (and no filter) (stupid newbie me).

For sure now, anytime i'll do a water treatment i will quarantine the fish.
 
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So sorry for what you're going through! I know what it feels like to: trying to help and make things worse instead ):
 

Meyer Jordan

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If Algorem is a flocculant then why would time of day matter?
Any other flocculant (alum, gypsum, montmorillonite) can be applied whenever it is convenient. Light and/or temperature will not affect the performance.
 
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If Algorem is a flocculant then why would time of day matter?
Any other flocculant (alum, gypsum, montmorillonite) can be applied whenever it is convenient. Light and/or temperature will not affect the performance.
The instuctions on the container very clearly state that the treatment hould be applied to the pond in the morning am not in the pm Meyer. It also clearly goes on to say that one should add extra airtones to the pond when using it ...
It goes on to further to [very clearly] state that after mixing the liquid AlgoRem together with pond water it should be applied to the ponds surface with a watering can.
Unless you have a bottom drain as I have it is then advisable to net out the clumps of algae from the side of the pond
it further states one should keep an eye on the pond and should the fish start to gasp trasfer them to a QT fasility soonest.
[I would hazzard a guess this would happen if the pond does not have adequate air at the time of application or if used at the wrong time i;e during the heat of the afternoon/evening].......
It is safe for fish and plants but not for sturgeon

Dave
 
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Meyer Jordan

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The instuctions on the container very clearly state that the treatment hould be applied to the pond in the morning am not in the pm Meyer. It also clearly goes on to say that one should add extra airtones to the pond when using it ...
It goes on to further to [very clearly] state that after mixing the liquid AlgoRem together with pond water it should be applied to the ponds surface with a watering can.
Unless you have a bottom drain as I have it is then advisable to net out the clumps of algae from the side of the pond
it further states one should keep an eye on the pond and should the fish start to gasp trasfer them to a QT fasility soonest.
[I would hazzard a guess this would happen if the pond does not have adequate air at the time of application or if used at the wrong time i;e during the heat of the afternoon/evening].......
It is safe for fish and plants but not for sturgeon

Dave
I have also read the label.
This is where I have an issue with this product (and many others). It is apparently not just a flocculant given the fact that its use may severely affect the Oxygen level in the pond being treated and, given the manufacturer's caveat on sturgeons, that it is not entirely safe for fish.
Add to this the admonition that this product should be administered in the morning. This apparently does not refer to water temperature because the daytime temperature in the early Spring would be the close to the nighttime temperature in late Summer.
Not enough information is supplied for this product. As was stated in a previous post, the MSDS for this product does not list the ingredients and on ecological toxicity states "No information available". This statement on ecological toxicity is a contradiction for if "No information is available" then how is it known that this product is not safe for sturgeons?
Others may do what they feel comfortable with but I would certainly not use this product unless considerable more information was forthcoming.
 

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