At what temp can I add my home-grown bacteria?

[Lardeelion]

My water, for the moment, is between 54 and 57. This weekend (Northern WV) is supposed to be in the upper 70's with a nasty 26-degree low night next week. and cooler temps for a while.

I've been running my filter for my 55g angelfish tank stuffed with as much extra material as I could fit in there, for the express purpose of using it in the pond when the time comes.

I'm reading conflicting things on the temperature at which bacteria dies, and April in WV can be pretty bipolar. I wouldn't want to put it out there if there was a chance of it dying.

Thanks.
L

 

[sissy]

I always use water temps and have read different temps also but went on the one i saw most which was water temp of 40 .They range from 35 degrees all the way up to 55 degrees .Gets confusing

 

[crsublette]

The microorganisms, in our context for our particular purpose, only truly "dies" when the water actually freezes or when the water is actually boiling. The microorganism's conversion rates progressing through the nitrogen cycle is what changes with the temperature and the optimal range is around 78*F~82*F, that is the top of the curve in the conversion rate. However, this conversion rate curve depends on the construction of the biological filter. This is due to the fact that, when the conversion rate is low, there is still a prevalent amount of chemicals in the water so to progress through the nitrogen cycle. Thus, the microorganisms will continue to populate the static surface area in the filter and tank/pond until the chemicals are noticeably reduced. So, at lower temperatures, dependent on construction, there will be a higher population of microorganisms that are more capable at the particular temperature range. Thus, when the water temperature is higher, there is a lower population of microorganisms.

Also, all of this depends on other water chemistry variables, such as oxygen, inorganic carbons, calcium, magnesium, and other factors.

So, you can do the transfer from your small tank to your pond at any time, but, personally, I would wait until the water temperature stays above 60*F.

 

[Catfishnut]

Lardeelion,

Here is a range of WATER temperature for nitrifying bacteria:

77 - 86 F optimum growth and nitrification
64 F growth and nitrification is decreased by 50%
46 - 50 F growth and nitrification is decreased by 75%
39 F no growth or activity
</= 32 F death
>/= 120 F death

Water temp is a major factor, but there are other factors that you need to consider as well. These others include the amount of ammonia, nitrogen, oxygen, the pH, ATP, KH, etc.

There must be ammonia and nitrogen compounds available as this is the bacteria's "food" source. Ammonia for Nitrosonomas and nitrites for Nitrobacter. They also need oxygen, other micronutrients and the proper pH in order to consume the "food".

Optimum pH for Nitrosonomas bacteria is 7.8-8.0
Optimum pH for Nitrobacter bacteria is 7.3-7.5
Nitrification ceases at pH below 6.5 and becomes toxic below 6.0.

Nitrification is greatest when the DO is greater than 80% saturation, below 2 ppm nitrification ceases.

All nitrifying bacteria require other nutrients to live and ATP (Adensosine TriPhosphate) is most important. Not sure how much, but it must be present for them to process their food sources to live.

Also, light (expressly blue and UV spectrums). Nitrifying bacteria are light sensitive and sunlight can kill them if the exposure is too high. They should be kept in the dark.

Gordy

 

[crsublette]

For the most part, that is correct.

Although, if it were true that nitrification ceased at below 6.5 pH and toxic below 6.0, then aqua-ponic systems that maintain a 5.5~6.0 pH to grow particular berries would not see the significant amount of nitrates in their system that they do experience.

Also, from all the documents I have read, the "optimum pH' for those bacteria is assuming a particular population and time frame for oxidation. So, it is not so simple to suggest the pH is what is required for optimal oxidation.

However, there are many genera of bacteria and other microorganisms that are responsible for various oxidizing duties. So, I would avoid pointing to specific microorganisms, chemical concentrations, and light spectrums.

 

[Catfishnut]

Hi Charles,

Just to clarify, I am citing specifics for aquarium (and pond) water conditions for fish habitat only with the Nitrosonomas and Nitrobacter bacteria (specifically). The information is obtained from Fritz Industries. I didn't want to get into the specifics regarding aquaponics as that was not the concern of the original post. I included the other information just for reference.

In short words, even if the water temp was acceptable, the bacteria may still not do anything and may possibly even decrease in population if there were no bio-load (fish) present for them to obtain ammonia and nitrites from. The bacteria would be like workers in a factory with no raw materials to make stuff from. They'd just be sitting around playing cards and telling jokes. Provide them with the right amount of nitrogen compounds, the right pH, O2, etc and then they become a productive work force. Otherwise, they quit, find other jobs, commit suicide, go postal on the other bacteria for cheating at the card game... LOL OK, I am just being a little silly with some of those comments, but I think you understand what I was hinting at.

Here is the entire article:

http://www.bioconlabs.com/nitribactfacts.html

Gordy

 

[crsublette]

Yep, I thought that is where the copy & paste was from. I have mentioned the Fritz hyperlink in some of my posts in the past. Although, according to Dr. Tom Havonec's published microbiology papers, as can be found in the ASM repository (https://www.asm.org/), he takes Fritz's statement about Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas to task by demonstrating in his papers on how chemical fluctuations indicate the nitrobacter microorganism does not remain dominant. The only time Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas, amongst other microorganisms, are dominant is when chemical fluctuations significantly increase such as when weather significantly changes, feeding significantly increases, or other significant changes. This is why I tend to stray away from making references to the "optimal" environment of particular microorganisms since the dominance of those microorganisms is not static.


Since this thread is about water temperature, I mentioned 78*F~82*F as a reference to a rough basis of what is considered "optimal" and even 77*F~86*F would be quite fine. The point I was hoping to demonstrate is that the conversion rates are better in lukewarm water.


In this context, the aquaponics context do not change how the nitrogen oxidation process operates since it is also a freshwater environment. It was only mentioned to provide clarification. The fact is the oxidation process, as described by the nitrogen cycle, is still functioning for the health of fish and plants even at pHs hovering as low as 5.5~6.0; this is why I made the statement. Actually, the often recommended pH for these systems are in the 6.4~6.8, which involve fish and the subsequent nitrogen cycle, except other hobbyists typically go a bit higher due to fish and plant species and it is easier to control volatility concerns at higher pHs.


In the context of conversion rates, this implies a particular required concentration of inorganic chemicals thus this is why I rather refer to conversion rates rather than concentrations and also mentioned "all of this depends on other water chemistry variables, such as oxygen, inorganic carbons, calcium, magnesium, and other factors."


I was simply trying to keep the post short and remain in the context of the thread, that is water temperature; although, I am glad you posted to further support my previous statement in that how there are many other factors.


I mentioned a static 60*F or above since it is better than a water temperature range of 40~59*F and might be more likely to occur in West Virginia. Since, I know there are coastal, or near coastal, states that do not commonly see water temperatures in the high 70*F or low 80*F, this is why I mentioned a static water temperature above 60*F would be good, that is the water temperature never significantly drops below this mark.

 

[dieselplower]

I agree with Charles that a water temp of 60* would be good.

 

[Catfishnut]

It should be stressed that "optimal" and "functional" are two unique conditions. Being optimal for the bacteria growth and nitrification process doesn't mean that it has to be the goal. As long as the water temperature is consistently above 50 F (above 60 even better), I believe that the fish and the bacteria will be totally fine and as the temperature increases with the outdoor environment, the fish and the bacteria will equalize their roles in the pond naturally.

As long as the water temp does not drop below 40 or get to near freezing there should be no troubles, and I certainly don't expect that will happen from here on out this season. However, I wouldn't go stocking either new fish or bacteria until it is stable above 50. What is in the pond now after wintering there is already adjusted.

Gordy

 

[Lardeelion]

Okay guys, Thank you.

We are expecting a miserable cold snap, with a high of 81 tomorrow and a low of 27 on Tuesday. The fish are active today for the first time (water temp 65) but have not been fed so not much is happening with the cycle. My pond is raised and the water temp will fluctuate, so I'll wait until this weather passes and test the water regularly.

I've done fishless-cycles in the aquariums and have always cranked up the water to very warm temps to accelerate things. I'll apply what I know. Thanks for your info!

 

[Catfishnut]

Lardeelion,

Sounds like you are going to get hit with the weather which is coming through Nebraska right now. It was 81 degrees Saturday and Sunday night we are dropping way down in temp to 27! Same forecast as yours, just a day earlier.

I doubt your water temp will drop too much because it takes longer for water to vary in temp than the air of course, even if your pond is above grade. Besides, this cold spell won't stay too long.

I am hoping that the discussion has added to your information base on the bacteria subject anyway. I have stumbled upon many items of interest during my personal research. Not everything is 100% perfectly accurate, but I trust this resource (Fritz Industries) with their information on the bacteria issues. They are in business to make money from the sale of their products and if they err on their advice, then they would risk losing business, money and reputation. So yeah, I buy what they say pretty much (within reason). I certainly agree wth Charles... That there is a myriad of other factors which must be weighed in here at the same time and there can be so many variables to contend with that no one can pin down any specific target temp, pH, or other factor with absolute certainty to gaurantee anything.

All a person really needs to do is get into the ballpark. You can adjust your game from there.

Gordy

 

[Lardeelion]

Thank you Gordy. I'll be interested to see how the water fluctuates with this air temp change. My spring project is to build a frame for the raised pond (it's a Rubbermaid stock tank) and fill with dirt for insulation.

Anyway, I appreciate the info and the resource. I'll read up.

 

[dieselplower]

Flowing water warms and cool quickly in my experience. I would at least wait til the cold snap passed to add the bacteria. I assume you plan to put the filter material from the aquarium filter into the pond filter? Consider where the pond filter is located. If it is outside of the pond, it could easily cool quite a bit.