Digging a new pond.

[Lisak1]

The main reason why I'm opting to go with the bottom drain is because I have lots of trees that drop leaves and pine needles and I really don't want to vacuum my pond every couple of days even if i put up a shade sail over the pond.

I understand your concern, but I don't think that a bottom drain is designed to deal with leaves and debris that sink to the bottom. First of all, you want to avoid having all that debris sink AT ALL as it adds nutrient load to the pond that you don't want to have to deal with. It will also stain your water with tannins, which isn't harmful, but many people find the discoloration undesirable. But most importantly, the leaves that sink aren't going to move easily to a bottom drain - they get wet, they get sticky, they get heavy. Basically, they sink and they just lay there until you stir them up. I don't see a bottom drain being of any help for that kind of organic debris once it gets to the bottom. You'll still be in there with a net scooping and trying to get things moving. A skimmer is a better bet as it keeps the leaves from ever sinking in the first place.

A bottom drain is often called a "koi toilet" for the very reason that it's meant to carry fish waste out of the pond. People often use them when they have a heavily stocked dedicated koi pond so they can move the waste filled water to a settlement chamber before it goes to the filter. They let the solid waste settle out of the water column and then filter it. You definitely don't want to pump debris filled water from the bottom of your pond directly into your bog. You will clog up your bog in no time.

Just some thoughts while you are still in the construction stage.

 

[Nick83]

I understand your concern, but I don't think that a bottom drain is designed to deal with leaves and debris that sink to the bottom. First of all, you want to avoid having all that debris sink AT ALL as it adds nutrient load to the pond that you don't want to have to deal with. It will also stain your water with tannins, which isn't harmful, but many people find the discoloration undesirable. But most importantly, the leaves that sink aren't going to move easily to a bottom drain - they get wet, they get sticky, they get heavy. Basically, they sink and they just lay there until you stir them up. I don't see a bottom drain being of any help for that kind of organic debris once it gets to the bottom. You'll still be in there with a net scooping and trying to get things moving. A skimmer is a better bet as it keeps the leaves from ever sinking in the first place.

A bottom drain is often called a "koi toilet" for the very reason that it's meant to carry fish waste out of the pond. People often use them when they have a heavily stocked dedicated koi pond so they can move the waste filled water to a settlement chamber before it goes to the filter. They let the solid waste settle out of the water column and then filter it. You definitely don't want to pump debris filled water from the bottom of your pond directly into your bog. You will clog up your bog in no time.

Just some thoughts while you are still in the construction stage.

Thank you for clearing up the drain issue. I don't plan on over stocking with koi, although I would love to be able to do so but that's not my goal.
In my head I am thinking that having the bottom drain would help with circulation and grabbing waste off the bottom. After receiving more information and hearing first hand I'm leaning towards nixing the drain and going to invest in a good pond vac. Im certain that there are a few less invasive tools to gain proper circulation.
This is exactly why I started this thread, I can't do this on my own and I am very happy with all of the help and everyone's .2 cents to keep me on track. The drain i feel is a great tool but after gaining more information I don't think that the drain isn't necessarily for what I'm trying to achieve. Maybe a couple of airstones strategically placed will help with circulation without the drain? I can do all the research but without practical input from people who have experience and to help guide me through the process it really helps to keep me from unnecessary additions.

 

[Jimmy Gibson]

Thank you for clearing up the drain issue. I don't plan on over stocking with koi, although I would love to be able to do so but that's not my goal.
In my head I am thinking that having the bottom drain would help with circulation and grabbing waste off the bottom. After receiving more information and hearing first hand I'm leaning towards nixing the drain and going to invest in a good pond vac. Im certain that there are a few less invasive tools to gain proper circulation.
This is exactly why I started this thread, I can't do this on my own and I am very happy with all of the help and everyone's .2 cents to keep me on track. The drain i feel is a great tool but after gaining more information I don't think that the drain isn't necessarily for what I'm trying to achieve. Maybe a couple of airstones strategically placed will help with circulation without the drain? I can do all the research but without practical input from people who have experience and to help guide me through the process it really helps to keep me from unnecessary additions.

Be careful......Koi and Goldfish have a way of overstocking a pond all on their own......when there is a will there is a way......been there done that

 

[Lisak1]

Airstones will help to a certain extent to keep organic material in the water column, but aren't really designed to improve circulation. Your best bet is to carefully plan your pond so you don't have any "dead spots" where the water isn't moving. That's why certain shapes of pond are popular - like the classic kidney shape - as the water will flow from one end to the other. Waterfall on one side, skimmer located opposite is the usual construction to maximize circulation. Some larger ponds have jets installed in the more "remote" areas to keep water flowing.

 

[sissy]

With my pumps the left one feeds the right filter and the pump on the right side feeds the left filter

 

[Nick83]

Be careful......Koi and Goldfish have a way of overstocking a pond all on their own......when there is a will there is a way......been there done that

Oh yeah I figured that out this year when my comets had 5 offspring that are growing incredibly fast with no interaction from myself.

Airstones will help to a certain extent to keep organic material in the water column, but aren't really designed to improve circulation. Your best bet is to carefully plan your pond so you don't have any "dead spots" where the water isn't moving. That's why certain shapes of pond are popular - like the classic kidney shape - as the water will flow from one end to the other. Waterfall on one side, skimmer located opposite is the usual construction to maximize circulation. Some larger ponds have jets installed in the more "remote" areas to keep water flowing.

Good point about the airstones for circulation. It probably would be more beneficial to try jets if I am having trouble with the circulation. Two skimmers opposite of the bog spillway should ease my concerns a bit. With the rectangular shape of the pond and bottom slope there shouldn't have any major dead spots. Keeping the top of the water flowing in one direction will help, I'm sure. I also took note of the direction of the sea breeze which blows in the same direction as the water flows(wasn't planned, just luck).

 

[Lisak1]

I also took note of the direction of the sea breeze which blows in the same direction as the water flows

It definitely does help!

You're doing the right thing by careful planning and asking lots of questions - so much better than "I built a pond and made a ton of mistakes can you all help me fix them FAST!" haha!

 

[Nick83]

I really don't want to screw this up and GPF is my only live help who can give educated and informative answers.

Anywhoo! I have decided that I want to have a garden train to go around the pond. I've always wanted one and now I have a great place to put one.

 

[Nick83]

I had a meeting of the minds with myself the other day and I worked on fixing up the bog.
Now the closest side facing the house and from where I took the picture it is at ground level but slightly raised with maybe a 3% grade. Then I worked on the waterfall/outflow to the pond. I'm really digging into bogs that are level of slightly above the pond by 2 or 3 inches and they look like a single body of water.
I can't wait for the digging to be finished!

So far this is how it is shaping up.

 

[addy1]

I had a meeting of the minds with myself the other day

Love it!

 

[bagsmom]

Your pond is going to be great! One thing you may have addressed already (I need more coffee - haven't gone back to read all the posts yet) is the idea of a slightly sloped bottom. The Pond Digger mentioned this in one of his videos about cleaning debris from a pond and I did it in mine. Having an incline on the pond bottom encourages the gunk and crud to collect in one area, making it easier (more efficient) to get out. Of course this makes getting IN the pond a bit more dangerous -- but I didn't slip and fall when I was in mine (thank goodness!). I was in removing a lily pot from the deepest point at the bottom of the slope last week. Sure enough, any sunken debris seemed to be collected right there. Just something to consider if you are interested. Might make using the pond vac a bit easier.

 

[Lisak1]

I had a meeting of the minds with myself the other day

"And then I said to myself 'Self...'". haha!

It's looking good @Nick83

 

[Nick83]

Your pond is going to be great! One thing you may have addressed haven't gone back to read all the posts yet) is the idea of a slightly sloped bottom. The Pond Digger mentioned this in one of his videos about cleaning debris from a pond and I did it in mine. Having an incline on the pond bottom encourages the gunk and crud to collect in one area, making it easier (more efficient) to get out. Of course this makes getting IN the pond a bit more dangerous -- but I didn't slip and fall when I was in mine (thank goodness!). I was in removing a lily pot from the deepest point at the bottom of the slope last week. Sure enough, any sunken debris seemed to be collected right there. Just something to consider if you are interested. Might make using the pond vac a bit easier.

Thank you! Yes I have addressed the slope so everything does collect at the deep end. I was actually thinking about a rock bottom but after my research I was steered away from doing so, the rocks will just collect debris. So, I opted to dig out sloping shelves and using the pond vac would be a little easier for cleaning when most of the junk is in one area.

 

[addy1]

Mine is sloped, sloped in from the edge sloped down to the deep end. Stuff does tend to collect down in that area.