DIY FOAM FRACTIONATORS -- MECHANICS OF.....

[Mmathis]

Have seen a couple of threads [Mucky, Ethan, and one other that I can no longer find on another forum] where a FF [or PP ] was made without using additional air pumped in. Kind of interested in going that route, even though it's probably not as efficient as those with air. Also, many of the FF's seem so complicated, but these didn't, and some I've seen were built in-line as part of a TT.

Anyway, reason for this post: If someone wanted to make one, what basic knowledge is needed? what makes them work, or what are the mechanics (physics) involved?

IOW, if the water is flowing through a pipe, what makes the foam appear WHERE it does, and how does it "know" to exit through the exit tube? Are there "distance" measurements involved? Any places where tubing needs to be reduced or enlarged?

Obviously, like any DIY project, there is going to be trial & error, but just looking for the basics to get started -- in layman's language.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

In a nutshell.

Basically you just want to make lots of bubbles. The more DOCs (Dissolved Organic Compounds) you have in the water, the more easily those bubbles will turn into foam. Once the foam is created you want to have a way for that foam to be rejected, or removed, before it dissolves back into the water. The DOCs are removed with the foam, so In theory, when your foam fractionator (protein skimmer) stops producing foam, it is because you have reduced the levels of DOCs in your water.

 

[HTH]

I played with this a bit but never finished one. Searching for "DIY foam fractionator" will get you a lot of hits and ideas.

As I recall the trick is to small bubbles. They use a wood block for that and my air system did not have the pressure to drive it. Need to look into this again and find a way around that. Also foam making is best in the early AM and tappers off.

 

[Mmathis]

Yeah, have been the "GOOGLE" route. Most of those look complicated with tubes coming & going, up & down, over & under, tubing size changes, vertical foam outlets, horizontal foam outlets, above or below water-level foam outlets, control valves or no control valves... Way too much variation in designs to give me a clear picture of the "basics."

I'd like to do this without having to pump air in -- mainly 'cause I don't have an air pump.....

Think I'll visit HOME DEPOT today. Thinking I can experiment with the tubing set-up I have on my SKIPPY. I have a DIY Venturi in place, and there's lots of turbulence where the water enters the down-flow.

 

[kougs]

I posted the question on other forums about this subject and below are some replies. I built the Ethan FF and don't get the foam but I do at least a 10% weekly water change.

http://www.koi-bito.com/forum/main-forum/13334-very-new-improved-phoam-phraxionator.html

some replies from other forums about the FF.

I'm in agreement with Coach, FF not really needed if water changes, feeding, stock level and filtration are in good ranges. 'Course, I didn't really know that until I built one. I also do at least 100% per week water changes in summer in small environments, and enclose showers and tank in cooler weather to keep temperatues above 50[sup]o[/sup]​F.

Yes, Dick has the reality and practicality of it right. Protein skimmer is really only effective in saltwater. Or maybe I should say 'efficient'. It can be 'made to work' under very particular conditions. Perhaps its best efficiency is when applied to green water with a UV present. Then it is used a tool to take out dead and dying cells. After that unique situation Ff will tend to work randomly and in systems that are grossly overstocked. In that setting, a quality foamate can be produced at dusk and dawn and has a purpose. But then again, a biweekly 10% water change is probably a better way to go? JR


Hope this helps

 

[Mmathis]

How long does it take for a pond to start having DOC's? Mine is under 10 months old, and try as I might, can't get any foam to materialize. Not that I'm complaining.....

 

[kougs]

As with my FF I'm not getting foam so my take is I do regular water changes, pond isn't overstocked with kids and I don't feed them a lot so they do produce the DOC's. Plus a lot of plants, leaves decomposing would create DOC's.

I'm learning as I go too.

If I'm off base on my comments the experts will chime in.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

I think you are right on base Kougs.
A FF (protein skimmer) is not something someone necessarily needs in their pond. If you have high levels of DOCs frequent water changes can handle them just as well as a protein skimmer.
However, in my case there was several reasons I built my (Ethan type) Foam Fractionator, one was that I was intrigued with the design idea and like to build stuff. Another was I needed to run a separate pump for my skimmer anyway, and using that pump to run water through my UV unit and the FF made perfect sense.. Also, I felt that because of the media in Ethan's FF, even if my DOC levels dropped so low it stopped producing foam, it would still function as a trickle tower and help oxygenate the water before it flowed through my bio-filter.
So in effect (Ethans) FF does three things, it works as a protein skimmer (albeit maybe only sometimes), and works as a water oxygenator, and as a bio-filter.
Actually, if you read the end comments (and Ethans), in my post in this thread, it may also actually function as a de-gassing tower.

 

[Mmathis]

Is this DOC foam? First pic is inside the Skippy, and 2nd pic is a small stream in the "turtle bog."

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Looks like it.

 

[Mmathis]

It's from all the muck I disturbed yesterday [see my post on "dumb mistakes...].

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Can you use a shear pump for turbulance? This style is on my reef tank, eshoops protein skimmer. Im interested if anyone has replicated one for the pond from a reef tank. Its very simple just tring to find/make one without wet skimmate and contol.

 

[MitchM]

Protein skimmers can remove what appears to be an impressive amount of polluted skimmate, but they can only remove about 30% of the total organic carbon (TOC), even in reef tanks.
That still leaves 70% in the water column. A low bilogical load, water changes, a healthy plant population and pruning/disposal of the plants will also help maintain high water quality. Certainly activated carbon will work, but that would be expensive in a larger pond.
You can boost a skimmers performance with the addition of ozone, set up properly.

In 2009, Pennsylvania State University did a study on protein skimmers: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature

Absolute Koi sells skimmers for ponds: http://www.absolute-koi.com/subcat601.html Maybe their design and PSU's study could help you folks wanting to DIY one.