Does it hurt if my koi have not spawned

[Glitter]

Hello all,

My koi, (2 males 13 and 18 inches) have not had that much interest in spawning with my 2 females ( 13 and 17 inches ) this
last spring and now that the temp has dropped to 70 degrees are still showing little interest (which suits me fine). But my little girl nudges the bigger one as much as the males, and I know she is a she. I'm still new at this but I thought spawning was pretty aggressive. Both girls are full of eggs, so is it going to hurt if they go thru winter this way?

Any input is very much appreciated.

 

[Waterbug]

Spawning is normally a cool water getting warmer thing, not warmer getting cooler.

A female nudging another female isn't a spawning thing.

Spawning is aggressive. It happens in a rather short period each day over a few days. Many people don't seem to witness the event.

Why do you think the females are full of eggs?

If they do still have eggs it could end up being a problem most likely next spring. You can try cutting back food and not feeding thru the winter. That can cause the fish to absorb the eggs. Hit and miss. Normally this is done in the spring and it's hit and miss even then.

 

[Craig58]

You don't say if your Koi have spawned in past years or not. Or if this is the first year you have had them. Did you buy these Koi at this size this year?

If you've had them for a few years, have they spawned in previous years?

It shouldn't hurt the females if they don't spawn as they should normally reabsorb the eggs.

If they have spawned in previous years but not this year, I would double check and closely monitor your water conditions. It could be that water conditions have changed this year for some reason which may have reduced their desire to spawn.

If this is the first year you had them, you probably missed the spawning season as Waterbug indicated this is usually a spring thing, not a fall thing. I usually see spawing in our pond between 75-85F. But it also depends on the relative speed of the temp change and I also believe the length of day in the area you are in.

Spawning is usually in the early morning hours at sunrise. So you usually don't see it. But you might notice some chasing and bumping throughout the day.

It also can depend on the size of your pond and crowding conditions. 4 good sized Koi in say a 100 gallon pond might not spawn.

Craig

 

[Glitter]

Thanks guys. I've had this pond (1000 gal.) about a year and a half now with 2 koi for a 1 yr and 2 for 8 months. I just thought that because the females have gotton so big, that they must be full of eggs.
Maybe not. But it seems that they nudge each other alot these days with the water dropping to 65-70 degrees.

Still learning...

 

[Carolyn22]

My fish typically spawn around the beginning of August, however they have spawned in July and as late as September. They spawn very early in the morning. I would think in your zone, you would be spawning earlier than my fish spawn.

I do have a friend in Florida though that has koi and there have been some summers where the weather has gone from spring into the dog days of summer and so her water has warmed up very quickly and as a result, her fish have not spawned. I asked her and the eggs have been absorbed by her females. She has even tried various tricks to get them to spawn.

You will know when your koi spawn. You will smell it in the air, there is generally a film with suds on the top of the pond and you may find that your lily pads and such look like they have been through a small blender.

With some fish it is quite difficult to tell whether they are females or not. Also, there are some females that are rather largish around the middle that are not full of eggs. I do have one male in particular that is larger around the belly and I thought for the longest time he was a she until I saw him spawning. It is never easy to tell.

How old are your fish? Typically the fish need to be about 2-3 years old in order to spawn.

 

[Nova]

I can see the females sides starting to expand, the ones I know are female. The water in the skimmer is getting a bit foamy so I am guessing the release of protein material. Spring has finally arrived in SC and I am sure I will see eggs on the rocks this week or next when the temps hit upper 70's. Last year both ponds only had one baby survive, while the year before we had 10. This year I will need to reduce the number of koi because they are growing so well.

 

[Carolyn22]

Interesting - how do you do it? I always ended up with 60-70 fry after all the eggs had been eaten. We fished (no pun intended) more koi fry out of that pond. Made me wonder why there are not more koi in the world.

 

[don't ask]

interesting as i would have thought cooler water getting warmer as well but i guess just warm water can start the process

 

[koiguy1969]

i could be wrong, but i believe, its not just water temps... i believe its daylight hours as well ... i control the hours of light my fish get for 8 months a year in the basement pond. the last couple weeks before i put them outside i slowly increase their light hours to 12+ hours a day, from about 2 months of 7-8 hours a day. they stay in much the same water (temp and chemistry). as i pump water between ponds when i move the fish. they begin spawning the morning after i move them outside, atleast for the last few years. i maintain about 60* water the whole time they're inside. i was taught, 63* is the temp where spawning begins to be induced, and in my experience that statement rings true. (atleast, in my experience)
i was also told...the warmer the water , especially over 70*, the eggs and fry develope faster, even too fast. and this can make them more susceptable to physical anomolies,deformaties, or abnormalities. i have no experience with spawns in over 70* water so i have no real evidence.one way or another.. my fish may spawn in warmer waters but i havent harvested the eggs. i get more than enough the first couple days. and i have seen them go at it most of a day. but sun up is the always most active. 5:30an til about 9:00 am.

 

[Waterbug]

Fish will spawn when ever, these things aren't digital. Professionals use water temp because it's easy and effective.

 

[Dave 54]

i could be wrong, but i believe, its not just water temps... i believe its daylight hours as well ... i control the hours of light my fish get for 8 months a year in the basement pond. the last couple weeks before i put them outside i slowly increase their light hours to 12+ hours a day, from about 2 months of 7-8 hours a day. they stay in much the same water (temp and chemistry). as i pump water between ponds when i move the fish. they begin spawning the morning after i move them outside, atleast for the last few years. i maintain about 60* water the whole time they're inside. i was taught, 63* is the temp where spawning begins to be induced, and in my experience that statement rings true. (atleast, in my experience)
i was also told...the warmer the water , especially over 70*, the eggs and fry develope faster, even too fast. and this can make them more susceptable to physical anomolies,deformaties, or abnormalities. i have no experience with spawns in over 70* water so i have no real evidence.one way or another.. my fish may spawn in warmer waters but i havent harvested the eggs. i get more than enough the first couple days. and i have seen them go at it most of a day. but sun up is the always most active. 5:30an til about 9:00 am.

From what I know of koi koiguy is almost correct in what he says temperature has alott to do with it as does water chemistry.
Koi almost always seem to spawn after heavy rain and some people add a little bit of Peat to their filter to help them along in their amerous attentions towards each other . :heartpump: .
Koi dont breed until the are over 10" in length anyway and females re-absorb their eggs if conditions arent right that beeding season most times without humam intervention.
However koi mating is a rough old affair which they can and do damage to themselves most koi people seperate the female off into a QT tank with a male of their choice and allow then to spawn removing the adults after the act leaving th eggs to develope on spawning mats in the QT tanks and hatch , you then cull as you go along in the hope you'll get a half tidy koi at the end of it.
Fry as they develope need a spcial diet to start with, moving on up to pellets later.

rgrds

Dave

 

[capewind]

Koi dont breed until the are over 10" in length anyway

This I have to disagree with, or atleast I have two Matsuba girls who said otherwise late last May. I only have a few girls, so it is super easy to figure out who the moms are even in an outside pond spawn. Not to mention noticing one day the girls are plump with eggs, then they are not, then to find 1/4" - 1/2" babies a short time later ... While not correct to any color, I think my seven 7" - 8" MatsubaX babies down in the basement are pretty dang cute

This little guy is one of my least favorites, but the one I caught first, so it was the victim of the photo shoot. These pictures were taken Jan 1st, and guessing him to be 4-5" here. The one we want to keep, the lateral scales are very even, and all are silvery white. Not blotchy like this one. It also has a better body The Matsuba moms have standard scales, so I *THINK* it narrows down who the dad may have been. Thinking it was my Doitsu Kikokuryu boy, but dont know for sure, and it really doesnt matter LOL.

 

[koiguy1969]

adding koi clay to the pond is believed help induce spawning, as will tetraponds 'koivital' i used to move the fish whenever, but the last 3 years i move them the first few days of june. and they have spawned the very next morning. if i put them out on monday.. tuesday theyre spawning at 5:30 am when i go out there.
capewind... i too, have had a female spawn at barely 8". but 10" is considered the general rule of thumb.

 

[Dave 54]

Sorry CW but conventional koi wisdom has them breeding from 3-4 years of age and from 10" upwards.
The larger your female koi the more eggs produced up to a wacking great number of around 50,000 eggs perhaps more
As koiguy states 10" is the general rule of thumb but I'm interested in the fact that both of you have had koi breed at 8" do either of you know the age of your 8" koi as this may very well have something to do with it .
Perhaps they had become stunted in some way but the biological clocks in these two 8" koi was still ticking who knows as I'd never heard of them breeding at this size before now, you guys are the first two people who have ever mentioned it .



rgrds


Dave

PS
CW those silver scales can and do change colour over time in Brown top we have a spitting image of your second doitsu his changed colour around the edges of the lateral scales to black , give them both time and see how they turn out ....

Dave

 

[capewind]

Selecting a proper age to breed at, and when they can breed are two very different things ... I was a dog breeder for many years (20+ yrs between two breeds) ... a bitch is capable of reproduction from her first season, which generally takes place around 6 months of age. For many breeds, both of mine, it was absolutely unethical to breed under the age of two years.

To answer your Koi question... the two Matsuba girls, one or both being the moms to my May 2012 pond spawn were purchased late in the fall of 2011 as 3-4" babies ... They were maybe 6", no more than 7" at an absolute max in May at the time of the spawning.