(Fire) pond vs (fire) pool

[Oskar]

Howdy,

thanks for all the info in the forums - already got a lot info reading.

However, I think I have a little different situation.

We are living in the CO, foothills of the Rockies - in the boonies. Wildfire is always a concern. Current 10x3 metal trough is giving in.
Some neighbors use a good sized above ground swimming pool like 30'x30'x52" for water storage and drain it in winter - what I see as waste of precious water
So, I am thinking about building a pond. First to store water. I am sure wildlife ( and unfortunately neighbors cows) will not mind either.
Space is not an issue. Primary water source will be a existing rainwater collection system - even when it will take to fill the pond. I do want to minimize the use of well water.
I am concerned about evaporation and the water becoming too warm in summer. IMHO, means better reduce the surface and dig deeper. I am also rolling the idea of putting the return lines from the filter deep into the ground and make them relatively long to create kinda "cooling loop"

Thanks for input

Oskar

 

[addy1]

to our group!

I had a pond in arizona, made it 5.5 feet deep, between the depth and the waterfall it stayed around 85 during our 118 degree summers.
A cooling loop would probably really help.

We are on a well in maryland, fill the pond via gutter flow, use the well only if needed.

 

[JohnHuff]

Welcome too!
Hmmm, actually a cooling loop should be considered in every pond because in winter it would also be a warming loop.

 

[Big Lou]

One additional factor to consider is depth. A thermal loop should as deep as possible. Essentially below the freeze depth.

 

[j.w]

Oskar
So are you putting in fish or is this pond just for storage in case of wildfires or both?

 

[Oskar]

right now I think a about a depth of 5 - 6 feet. I have a backhoe, so that is doable and even in cold winters the pond would not freeze to the bottom.

Fish, hmm, maybe. I was/am considering it. An eatable fish . ( I love trout, but I am afraid trout is not a pond fish )


Cooling loop, I can easily trench 100 feet, 5 feet deep. That is fore sure below freeze depth and should be the same temperature summer/winter.

So, I was looking at liners. 45 mil, there is some 40 mil at h#depot which are significant less expensive compared to what for example Northern Tools has.
Any advise?

Thanks
Oskar

 

[j.w]

My friend up the road has trout in her pond along w/her koi. They have been in there for a few years now. She has a very humongous pond tho:

 

[Oskar]

Maybe I should ask you to dismiss my above post and consider instead this statement. If you are hoping to achieve geothermal cooling/heating of your pond water it may be wise to research this topic for your specific area. Consistent geothermal cooling and heating of a ready supply of water is initself a major undertaking. With that said, if your pond water is constantly cycled through deeper than normal underground buried piping I would venture to say the waters brief exposure to temperature variations may not adequately impact the temperature of your pond. Just saying.............

Best of luck

great discussion.

Assume to separate filter/stream and heat/cooling. For heat exchange have a "coil" of 3" pipes and a loop of total 200 feet. Makes a volume of approx 70 Gal in the pipe ( I hate those imperial calculations, metric is way easier )
At a low flow rate, the water could be in the loop for an hour.
I think I should look at designs for heat pump loop. Might give a better understanding

Thanks
Oskar

 

[Oskar]

My friend up the road has trout in her pond along w/her koi. They have been in there for a few years now. She has a very humongous pond tho:

How big is that pond?
Taking the height of a person .. my guess is 8 deep and like 20x40 feet ?
Such size would not scare me off

Oskar

 

[j.w]

Yep it is 8ft deep and I don't know the other dimensions. It's huge is all I can say! She actually has swum in it and floated around on an air mattress. She has this huge filter system w/ giant brush things and settlement chambers whatever and on and on. She's in the process of building a stream and ponds along the stream in the future. Too much work for me

 

[Big Lou]

Wow!

 

[Catfishnut]

Oskar,

By the way, WELCOME to the Garden Pond Forums!

If you suspect the neighboor's cattle might visit this pond, I don't think the liner would survive. They won't stop at just taking a sip from the edge of the pond, they are going to enter the pond for a wade and their hooves will go right through the liner.

If this pond is going to be for emergency reserve of water to fight a wildfire, you want it to be holding water at all times and not have to worry about a leak caused by a stray cow. I would contemplate using something like bentonite (specifically sodium bentonite) to make a permanent and thick, self repairing liner.

My Uncle Joe used it on his ranch to seal the bottoms of the large round stock tanks (tanks made with no bottom, just an outer ring of corrugated galvanized metal). The bentonite was dumped in the bottom and water was run atop it. Then you got into the tank and walked it down like mashing grapes for wine with your feet. This created a sealed bottom for the tank which had no bottom.

I have included some videos which explain the entire process and I think you will agree that this is probably the best method to seal your pond for the purpose you desire of a fire-protection pond. You can create a very large and deep pond with this method and you are not going to be able to do this with an EPDM liner. I really like the notion and now I am wondering why more pond owners do not opt for this type of a liner as opposed to the EPDM liners for even simple, small backyard garden ponds.

Obviously you would need to engineer any stream or waterfall areas to eliminate errosion of the bentonite. EPDM liner would probably be best suitable in such errosive areas. Logic tells me that bentonite would evenutally be erroded by flowing water, even if it would take a longer time, it would still occur and then that feature would leak.

VIDEO of sodium bentonite for a pond liner part 1

part 2

part 3

Video of a badly leaking natural pond repair process using sodium bentonite

Gordy

 

[callingcolleen1]

JW your friend has a massive pond for sure! I might be little worried about it being so close to the home. The "what if's" are just endless, like "what if pond leaks and floods house", or "what if it freezes really hard and the ice expansion busts threw to the house"! It is good that your weather is mild, but "what if it really rains hard and what if their is a little earthquake" and that massive water turns into a "tital wave" that hits the house... never mind the mud slide. oh the worry....

 

[j.w]

Yep not my problemo and I guess all that could happen but so far so good for her setup. It's been that way for years and we have had ice, snow, earthquakes etc. so hopefully she will be fine

 

[HARO]

Colleen; j.w. DID say the pond was her "friend's UP the road." I'm sure it was designed so that any catastrophy will result in the water roaring DOWN the road, thus protecting the owner's house. j.w.'s house may not be as lucky!!
John