George Zimmerman Trial

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by waynefrcan, Jul 12, 2013.

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  1. waynefrcan

    CdnJCR

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    We have always had self defence laws etc. This was just clarification of these laws. Here is a part that could have been used in the Zimmerman trial.

    The unlawful attack element is also removed because it causes a great deal of difficulty under the current law. This element complicates trials unnecessarily by placing the focus on the early stages of a confrontation. In asking the jury to determine who attacked whom first, the jury must look to which actions constituted the first assault. This in turn requires the jury to determine what the accused believed about the intentions of the other party. It's far preferable to focus attention on the thoughts and actions of the defender at the time when they committed the actions they are charged with.
     
    CdnJCR, Jul 21, 2013
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  2. waynefrcan

    capewind

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    I have re-read this, and am confused. There was a great deal of time spent on the early stages of the GZ/TM case, or at least in my interputations of the fact. GZ was watching a suspicious person .. following and watching are not illegal actions in a public area ... Watching is not an attack or assault.
     
    capewind, Jul 22, 2013
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  3. waynefrcan

    CdnJCR

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    Not a lawyer but under Canadian law the jury would put less importance on who followed who, who started the fight etc. and focus attention on the thoughts and actions of the defender (Zimmerman) at the time when he committed the actions he was charged with. In other words regardless of what happen before, if he feared for his life = self defence. I would add he would have had to have no other way of getting away from the confrontation safely as I do not believe we have any stand your ground rights.
     
    CdnJCR, Jul 22, 2013
  4. waynefrcan

    capewind

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    I am overtired and clearly not at the top of my game, but lost on where you are going with this ... this case did address the moment physical contact was made, and it was in those moments where it was justifiable self defense,...

    The focus on who followed whom seemed more of a media issue in trying to show racial profiling, and not just a guy watching out for his neighborhood...

    As to the stand your ground laws, we have I believe 30 states with some variation of this law. My state not being one of them ... everything varies by situation, but if I was threatend with bodily harm, and had the option physically available to me, I would use deadly force FIRST. This may not apply to most, but I am at my best when under pressure, and am able to quickly access my options. For me, adrenaline makes me more focused, and less likely to be irrational.
     
    capewind, Jul 22, 2013
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  5. waynefrcan

    waynefrcan 15 years ponding and hopefully 15 more!

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    What are you talking about?? You live in Canada correct? WE would not have any concealed firearms so the Zim case would never happen. Only in the event of a bad guy having an illegal gun. But either way the sucker is going to jail.

     
    waynefrcan, Jul 22, 2013
  6. waynefrcan

    waynefrcan 15 years ponding and hopefully 15 more!

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    I'm sorry Cdnjcr, IMO some of your opinions and posts are not making much sense and not sure if you making comments just to stir the pot or what?
     
    waynefrcan, Jul 22, 2013
  7. waynefrcan

    adavisus

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    Hmmm, why call zimmerman a thug, weeeell, because there is evidence that he displayed violent and criminal impulses.

    Whut? people let folk who are criminal and violent have guns? say it aint so

    Well, Zimmerman is and his family knew it

    http://progressivevalues.blogspot.com/2012/03/george-zimmerman-history-of-arrests-and.html

    According to his former co-workers, Zimmerman was fired from a security job providing security for house parties after he grabbed an intoxicated young woman and threw her. According to at least one of these co-workers, Zimmerman also had a "Jekyll and Hyde" personality, where he could be entirely decent one moment, but prone to violence the next

    Zimmerman actually had three separate prior arrests, but these arrests were sealed by the courts. It also turns out that Zimmerman's father, Frank Zimmerman, was a retired Orange County magistrate judge, which brings up the question whether he used his influence somehow to get these arrest records sealed. If these arrest records weren't sealed, then it might have kept Zimmerman from acquiring a gun by passing a background check

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-case-george-zimmerman_n_1392591.html

    “He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

    ----------------------------
    Zuazo said that three years earlier, Zimmerman attacked her while the two were driving to a counseling session. Zuazo said she popped her gum in his face and he repeatedly smacked her in the face. In January 2002, she added, Zimmerman became enraged that she had come home late. They wrestled and he threw her on the bed, smacking her, according to the newspaper.

    ----------------------------
    In September 2003, Zimmerman called police and reported that another motorist spat on him, according to reports, Zimmerman followed the man in his car until the police arrived. Daniel Osmun, the other driver, told police that Zimmerman was tailgating and that he spit his gum out the window "out of frustration."

    ----------------------------
    Some of Zimmerman’s neighbors said he had a history of being overly aggressive and followed people whom he thought appeared suspicious back to their homes.
    -------------------------------------------
    Zimmerman noticed that other employees didn’t like him, so Zimmerman chose him as a target of bullying to prove himself to other people.
    Witness stated that his mentor said that George was good at his job, and had caught on to the work quickly. As such, he told the witness to ask him or George if the witness had any questions. As a practical joke, Zimmerman made the witness perform menial tasks, then embarrassed him in front of other co-workers for complying with his instruction. He says Zimmerman referred to him as a “fucking moron,” and he did comedy skits about him on the job on multiple occasions.
    Zimmerman made fun of the witness and his accent, saying lines from “Ahmed the Terrorist“. This went on for days and days. The witness submitted a letter of complaint to the company after making a verbal complaint to the manager about Zimmerman’s behavior.
    The witness said that the taunting got so bad that he felt violent thoughts against Zimmerman. George Zimmerman mocked his accent and made reference to terrorism regarding his background. Zimmerman did comedy shows and jokes about Middle Easterners in reference to the witness while on the job. He constantly called the witness a moron and stupid.
    He says that George Zimmerman was fired because he called the company hotline excessively. He had a history of filing complaints against managers and how things were run in the store. He was making these complaints to Human Resources. After Zimmerman was fired, the managers told him that HR said the guy was nothing but trouble and to get rid of him.

    http://trayvon.axiomamnesia.com/peo...2-files-trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-case/

    (Incidental sidenote, vigilante profile, Most vigilante behavior begins with a narcissistic perception which believes the world is a better place now that they are in control. The distorted perception that no one can do the job like them and that everything is better now that they have control. Vigilante individuals usually ignore the rules they do not agree with, and create new rules that they feel are better suited for themselves)

    --------------------------------------

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/21/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html

    And the investigator expresses doubt that Zimmerman, who had lived in the neighborhood for three years and described himself as head of the neighborhood watch, did not know the names of the three streets in the subdivision.

    "To be honest with you, I have a bad memory anyway," Zimmerman said, adding that he has attention-deficit (hyperactivity) disorder and takes medication for it.

    Attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) has been called attention-deficit disorder (ADD) in the past. But ADHD is now the preferred term because it describes both of the primary features of this condition: inattention and hyperactive-impulsive behavior. In some children, signs of ADHD are noticeable as early as 2 or 3 years of age.

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adhd/DS00275/DSECTION=symptoms

    ---------------------------------------------------

    Zimmerman was not fit to cope with any responsibility, stressful situation and probably met the definition of being unfit to possess a firearm several times over

    The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibits any person from selling or otherwise transferring a firearm or ammunition to any person who has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” or “committed to any mental institution.” 18 U.S.C. § 922(d)(4). Such persons are prohibited from possessing firearms.

    According to federal regulations, a person has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” if a court, board, commission or other lawful authority has determined that he or she, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: 1) is a danger to himself, herself, or others; or 2) lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his or her own affairs. 27 C.F.R. § 478.11. The term “adjudicated as a mental defective” explicitly includes a finding of not guilty by reason of insanity or incompetence to stand trial.
     
    adavisus, Jul 22, 2013
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  8. waynefrcan

    waynefrcan 15 years ponding and hopefully 15 more!

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    I'm not touching that one! I spent alrdy too much time on this ZIm case.
     
    waynefrcan, Jul 22, 2013
  9. waynefrcan

    adavisus

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    I think it rests Trayvon's soul and those that cared for him to know the cause of his death.

    Zimmerman should never have been allowed anywhere near the responsibility of neighborhood watch, he should not have had any access to firearms.

    His family is responsible, he was killed by an incompetent mental defective
     
    adavisus, Jul 22, 2013
  10. waynefrcan

    waynefrcan 15 years ponding and hopefully 15 more!

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    WEll Zim might be a mental and a bully, but wasn't a bully that night, he got his &#* beat. I would say that after some rude words from Zim, TM went mental with the MMA fight. IT still is a self defense fearing for his life justified shooting. Case closed.

    Neither person made good judgements that night. Don't just protect your good pal TM.
     
    waynefrcan, Jul 22, 2013
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  11. waynefrcan

    waynefrcan 15 years ponding and hopefully 15 more!

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    By the way I also predicted "no hell will break loose". Turns out only minor disturbances.

     
    waynefrcan, Jul 22, 2013
  12. waynefrcan

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Yeah, I never thought there would be. That was an entire fantasy created by the media hoping it would occur.
     
    crsublette, Jul 22, 2013
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  13. waynefrcan

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Adavisus, you are just proving the point that Trayvon should have picked a better fight with someone else instead of Zimmerman.

    On their television interviews, Trayvon's own mother and friend indicated they knew Trayvon was much more likely to have thrown the first punch. The entire reason he was in that neighborhood was due to his mom kicking him out of the house and to be sent to his father's house, since they were seperated, so to get Trayvon straightened out. This is quite damaging in of itself.


    It is interesting how folk want to make Zimmerman out to be a criminal mastermind, that faked or exaggerated his own injuries from pistol whpping himself, regardless of the police officer photos of him sitting in the police car, the moment after they arrived on the scene very soon, within a minute, after the gun shots were fired. Notice how fast the police soon arrived due to Zim calling the police so soon; he should have called them sooner than what he did.

    And quote, from Timeline of shooting:
    • 7:16:55 — Gunshot heard on 911 call.[17]
    • 7:17 — The first officer on the scene, Officer T. Smith arrives by squad car at Retreat View.[18]
    • 7:17:40+ — Officer Smith arrives at the crime scene.[19]
    • 7:19:07 — Photo taken of Zimmerman's head injuries by a civilian bystander.[20]

    So this attempt on Huffington Post and other news sources to manipulate the evidence and yelling racism appears to be a trend by the pro-Trayvon folk such as by flat out suggesting Zimmerman's injuries were exaggerated or self inflicted is complete hogwash, which I am not suprised by the Huffington Post submiting such lies since it is what that organization has always done, especially when it comes to supporting death threats against folk. Oh wait, that's right, they just allow their organization to be used as a tool for folk to express them self and the Huffington Post accepts zero responsibility for this allowance of the public forum to these crazies to write the articles that they write on that outlet.

    I wonder where all of that very good character defamation evidence was, while the trial was ongoing, so to prove Zim's past history of malicious intent that would persuade Zim to be the provocateur thug by the proseuctor. Due to all of the other flat out assumptions and theories the Judge allowed the prosecution to tell to the Jury, the character defamation evidence would have definitely been used, unless the defamation was just deemed not credible even by the standard of the Judge. It definitely appears to be quite a convenient tactic that these particular news sources would release this information, whereas at the very least we got pictures and cellphone text messages and a school suspension record from Trayvon actually showing how he was trying to be a thug.


    It is unfortunate since the young man obviously did nothing to retreat, as autopsy evidence shows nothing from Trayvon's body indicating an attempt to avoid the fight, as he should have when his friend told him to, and did nothing to avoid the assault & battery against Zim. The young man caused his own death due to the consequences of his own actions in choosing to attack a concealed gun carrier.

    Honestly, I wished the kid would still be alive so that assault & battery charges would have been filed against Trayvon causing him to be sent to juvie to get straightened out. This third strike against him would not have been swept under the rug this time unlike the past events.


    Nobody has claimed Zim was the perfect saint, but, even with his past, he sure has done more to help the troubled youth in the community than Trayvon has ever accomplished.


    Welp, Adavisus, the next time you get seriously assaulted and battered at night, be sure to tell us so we can say that you actually deserved it. Hopefully, you would not have blacked out and still have memory of it since ya likely carry nothing to defend your self.
     
    crsublette, Jul 22, 2013
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  14. waynefrcan

    adavisus

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    Trayvon was running, walking away from Zimmerman for four minutes. He had every right to defend himself against a gun toting thug who was hunting him.

    Zimmerman had no reason or right to follow or harrass a legitimate resident. What he did was insane, impulsive, consistent with his mentally defective character

    Zimmerman was incompetent in every respect, carrying a gun, pursuing without cause, provoking a dispute, initiating a punch up and cowardly resorting to using a weapon when the punch up he provoked didn't go to his liking

    Trayvon had a clean sheet, no police record.

    I wouldn't have needed a weapon to follow Trayvon at a safe distance.

    I wouldn't have called police either.

    On foot, seeing Trayvon looking at the club in the rain I might have said, hi, you are new round here like any other normal rational person.

    Or just drove post with a brief glance. Nothing suspicious. The incident would never have happened

    Because I'm not a mentally defective ADHD thug who terrorises the neighborhood, incompetent for any responsibility, mentally unfit

    And no, I've never been beaten senseless. Nor had any serious problem avoiding, disarming and disabling a thug or thugs

    Thugs such as burglars carrying weapons breaking and entering, knife wielding hooligans, muggers with knives, snipers putting three rounds in my car, various assaults, nope, no one dead, but all banged up and prosecuted...
     
    adavisus, Jul 22, 2013
  15. waynefrcan

    CdnJCR

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    Didn't mean to confuse you just pointing out how the new self defence laws in Canada would have likely resulted in the same verdict if applied to the Zimmerman trial.
     
    CdnJCR, Jul 22, 2013
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  16. waynefrcan

    capewind

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    adavisus, I love having a healthy debate on tough subjects, but are we even talking about the same case? Your responses are so long, and so far out into left field from any of the facts, your points that had any merit have been lost. I need more coffee before even considering responding to all of that.
     
    capewind, Jul 22, 2013
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  17. waynefrcan

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Zim had every reason and right to follow the suspicious looking character lurking around on folks private property, as witnessed by a neighbor, that was in a neighborhood with a very recent history of house robberies.

    It is a shame the young man's mother and friend disagrees with you about initiating the punch.
     
    crsublette, Jul 22, 2013
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  18. waynefrcan

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Yeah, because it was swept under the rig by the school district and cops and the media. As one detective said, he was surprised the young man was never officially charged for what he has done. Unfortunately, there is still the school suspension record and Trayvon's cellphone text messages indicating he was involved in competitive street fighting and it is a shame the Judge flat out refused this physcial evidence to be heard by the Jury.
     
    crsublette, Jul 22, 2013
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  19. waynefrcan

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    So then tell me, why did Trayvon never run away from Zim ?? He obviously had the ability to run away since he was entirely capable of avoiding all of Zim's attacks, as shown by the autopsy report. He was only just a couple blocks away from his father's house. He would have been home within a minute if he actually ran his way there. Or, are you thinking like the other pro-Trayvon folk believe that Zim was a homosexual pedophile and this is the reason why Trayvon did not run home ??
     
    crsublette, Jul 22, 2013
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  20. waynefrcan

    crsublette coyotes call me Charles

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    Yep, that is the problem when talking with the pro-Trayvon folk since they always have to manipulate the evidence to make up their own hypothetical stories, just like the prosecution and politicians had to manipulate the evidence to simply just get Zim arrested and avoid the grand jury.

    They are more concerned about making Zim out to be the devil rather than helping the troubled youth, which Trayvon was a troubled youth.
     
    crsublette, Jul 22, 2013
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