GFI keeps tripping...

[Steve Melczer]

Pond Pumps

Pumps were off this morning, yesterday afternoon also.

Yesterday all I did was reset the GFI by the swing, the GFI at the pond was not tripped.

Today GFI by swing was tripped. Wouldn’t reset, no power at pond GFI.

Unplugged the new underground (grey) cable from swing GFI, plugged in the extension cord from yesterday (not the heavy duty yellow molded one) .

Then plugged the underground cable into the extension cord, both pumps went on for a few minutes and tripped.

Unplugged both pumps at the pond, reset GFI at swing power at the pond…plugged in one pump (little one) it ran, plugged in the other one and the GFI at swing tripped. Unplugged both pumps again, reset GFI at swing (power at pump).

Plugged in bigger pump…it ran, plugged in smaller pump it ran. WTF?

Unplugged the smaller pump (why take a chance).

Larger pump still running.

Makes no since “it is illogical”.

Swing outlet 15 amp GFI

Pond outlet 15 single pole switch to 15 amp GFI.

Grey ext. cord works when plugged into another ext. cord.

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I would say change out the swing 15 amp with a 20 amp GFI, But…a 15 amp is at the pond also, wouldn’t that trip before the swing GFI did?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

You mentioned an extension cord. What gauge is it?

 

[MitchM]

Your GFI is telling you something then.
It could be that it's defective, there's a fault in the wire run, or as Meyer Jordan queried, there may be a wire guage size issue.
How long is the run from the breaker box and fow what length of time was it functioning before the problem?
There could be a problem with one of your pumps, I can't really picture your overall setup.
What is amperage draw of the pumps?
Are there any other circuits tapped off the GFI line?

Do not simply increase the breaker size without matching the wire guage as well.

.

 

[mgmine]

Two pumps running off a 15 amp circuit seems like a lot to ask. Especially a GFI. and especially with two GFI's hooked together. These are very sensitive and it doesn't take a lot to trip them. Are you running 12 gauge wire? if so the going to a 20 amp breaker would be my next move.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Two pumps running off a 15 amp circuit seems like a lot to ask. Especially a GFI. and especially with two GFI's hooked together. These are very sensitive and it doesn't take a lot to trip them. Are you running 12 gauge wire? if so the going to a 20 amp breaker would be my next move.

Not really. I'm not sure what the amp consumption is of the OP's pumps are, but unless they are huge pumps there should be no problem.
I run two pumps, both around 1.5 amps (typical for backyard ponds) and two lights, a 55 watt UV unit, and sometimes run a small heater or vacuum cleaner off the same 15 amp GFI circuit without any problems.
Oddly enough the only time I have ever tripped the GFI is very occasionally when I flip off the lights. Not sure why that is, probably something to do with GFI circuitry, but it certainly has nothing to do with over taxing the 15 amp circuit.
My guess is that the OP has wire, cord or pump that has a tiny flaw (leak) that is sensing a ground fault in the water. Something not uncommon with submersible pumps. Or the GFI is simply malfunctioning. Also very common.

 

[Steve Melczer]

You mentioned an extension cord. What gauge is it?

The original was 12 ga molded ends, then 12 ga. outside burial (grey) wire, temp cords were 16 ga (they got warm. Today unplugged every thing and just using the Grey 12 ga underground wire. No problems, both pumps running all day. The aerator is on a different circuit, all three running. Main pump is a magnetic pump (4500 gph),the second was a sump pump 1/3 HP,

 

[MitchM]

A 1/3 hp sump pump could use 10 amps and the magnetic pump could use an additional 2 amps.
That could be reaching the limits of the circuit depending on the wire guage used.
We need further information and specifications please.

 

[Steve Melczer]

A 1/3 hp sump pump could use 10 amps and the magnetic pump could use an additional 2 amps.
That could be reaching the limits of the circuit depending on the wire guage used.
We need further information and specifications please.

I wish I had more information. New computer, lost a lot of info. The magnetic pump is a Cal-pump 4500 gph, the 1/3 sump was an extra one when I changed the sump in my basement...nothing wrong with it, but since I was changing piping, the pump was about 8 years old. Power comes from the house breaker (30 amp) to the garage by the pond. That is where the aerator feed comes from. A line is underground to the swing GFI (15 amp). 90 degree plug to grey 12 gauge wire runs to the side of the pond. GFI controlled by single switch (15 amp). Both GFI's were changed after something started tripping. Only the GFI by the swing, not the GFI at the pond. For two days every thing has been running fine, dry hot sunny days. The tripping happened during heavy storms.
Both outside outlets are in weather proof boxes.
Normally by the swing I also have a LED light strand plugged into that outlet, haven't because of the tripping.
Maybe the storms and condensation effected the GFI to trip

 

[MitchM]

My thought right now is that the underground wire coming from the garage has been over loaded for a length time, so that has led to a degradation of the wire insulation due to excess heat. The degraded insulation is allowing arcing to occur, either between the hot and neutral wires, or the hot wire and surrounding ground. The moisture in the ground is allowing the arcing to occur earlier than it would arc in a dry environment.
Alternatively, if there is arcing occuring at the GFCI outlets themselves, you should be able to see it by turning off the power and inspecting the outlet terminals yourself.
I'm making the assumption that the 30 amp breaker is for the whole garage and that the pond line is supplied by a 14 guage wire with a 15 amp breaker.
Someone added a 12 guage wire to the 14 guage underground line and put on the 20 amp GFCI that is in one of your pictures. That's deceiving, because the weak link in the chain is the 15 amp breaker is supplying the whole line.

 

[Steve Melczer]

My thought right now is that the underground wire coming from the garage has been over loaded for a length time, so that has led to a degradation of the wire insulation due to excess heat. The degraded insulation is allowing arcing to occur, either between the hot and neutral wires, or the hot wire and surrounding ground. The moisture in the ground is allowing the arcing to occur earlier than it would arc in a dry environment.
Alternatively, if there is arcing occuring at the GFCI outlets themselves, you should be able to see it by turning off the power and inspecting the outlet terminals yourself.
I'm making the assumption that the 30 amp breaker is for the whole garage and that the pond line is supplied by a 14 guage wire with a 15 amp breaker.
Someone added a 12 guage wire to the 14 guage underground line and put on the 20 amp GFCI that is in one of your pictures. That's deceiving, because the weak link in the chain is the 15 amp breaker is supplying the whole line.

Thanks for all the information you provided me Mitch.5 days and no trips, but it is hot and dry now. They were tripping in or after storms. Next thing I will look into is the wiring from the pond garage to the swing. Everything looks to be in pipe right now. As for the 14 gauge wire, I think the owners used 12 gauge, by being in the attic and crawl space it doesn't look like the took any short cuts on this house. Actually parts of this house were in an Architecture Magazine, I don't think the pond made it but I been re-doing that. With some good idea's from the previous owner. She's a designer...nurse...property management. Her mother lives next door and brother kitty corner behind me.
Thanks Mitch,
Steve

 

[MitchM]

No problem.
If you could supply a picture of the opened subpanel in the garage, that would help a bit.