Goldfish with unresponsive fungal/bacterial infection, pond-UK

[Anita.P.]

Good afternoon,

I am writing in order to ask for an advice from somebody more experienced.

I have a 400L small pond in the garden. One of my fishes started showing some spots which looked like fungus. Started treating the whole pond with Pimafix for a week, performed a 15% water change, then continued for another 3 days both with Pimafix and Melafix-so far. Unfortunately the fish does not seem to react to the treatment, more than that, he/she started swimming at the surface in an agitated manner plus one scale seems to be raised/damaged (not pine coning). I've already ordered some Malachite Green in the case the illness will progress.

Starting from today I also started some salt dips, planning 2/day dips (4 teaspoons of aquarium salt/ us gallon).Also, tested the water for possible amonia/nitrite and all came back within the normal range (water strips used).The uv/pump is also stopped, as recommended by the Pimafix/Melafix.

I would really appreciate some advice .Should I continue with the salt dips and melafix/pimafix for few more days and then Malachite Green treatment for whole pond? Bringing the fish inside in a quarantine tank would be an option , but tried to avoid this due to a high temperature difference between the pond and possible in-house quarantine.

Thank you very much for your help and time.

Best wishes,

Anita

 

[mrsclem]

Hello Anita- sorry you are having a problem with one of your fish. Do not use malachite green with any salt treatment. It becomes toxic. Also, the uv should be shut off but the pump needs to be running. How many fish do you have? Any others showing any sign? I recommend getting a liquid test kit as the strips are not always accurate. I'm sure others will chime in with possible suggestions.

 

[j.w]

@Anita.P.
So sorry to hear about your fish and hope it heals.

 

[GBBUDD]

You mentioned you have a small pond. Well that would be the understatement of the day 400l is only 90 gallons . Koi minimum gallons is 1000 for the first fish, 500 per koi after that.
You said you had more fish in the pond?
Koi are not a breed i would consider for that size body of water Goldfish at max . i'd even go as far as 2 goldfish with some schools of minnows.

Your right it looks like a fugus but not a bad case from what i see. Potassium permanganate Works very well on bacterial and fungal infections . BUT YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK before going this route , read several articles on it. Even placing straight undiluted on the actual spot and let it sit can do the job , but it can burn the fish too.
But the real answer is better water quality . There is so much more then just ammonia nitrate nitrite. Your running toward chemicals to fix the issue. The picture does not show a bad case of anything. Fish are incredibly resistant to disease when then have proper water conditions. We have all grabbed a fish and felt the slimy coating well that is a biological suit of armor. you can dump parasites into a pond with good water quality and a good diet no over crowding or feeding and they will be fine. oNCE THE WARMER WEATHER COMES IN AND YOUR BENIFICIAL BACTERIA KICKS IN . that alone may take care of the problem . But dosing one treatment then another and another is not a ideal situation

Potassium permanganate - How to use

Information and online shop of interest to aquaculture and the breeding, collection of koi, goldfish and ornamental fish.

www.koinet.net

 

[WaterGardener]

Melafix and pimafix are not effective treatments. The only thing most knowledgeable ponders think they are good for is making your wallet lighter.

Water quality issues are the main cause of fish problems, especially fungus problems. Usually, correcting the condition of the water will allow the fish to heal on its own.

You need to test the water with liquid tests kits so you will know the water's condition.

If you will do that and post the results here, we should be able to help you improve the water to help your fish.

 

[Lisak1]

I missed that @GBBUDD - I read it as FOUR THOUSAND liters.

Good advice here @Anita.P.

 

[Anita.P.]

Hello Anita- sorry you are having a problem with one of your fish. Do not use malachite green with any salt treatment. It becomes toxic. Also, the uv should be shut off but the pump needs to be running. How many fish do you have? Any others showing any sign? I recommend getting a liquid test kit as the strips are not always accurate. I'm sure others will chime in with possible suggestions.

Thanks for such a prompt reply. I have 2 mature goldfish, one of them with the described symptoms. UV has been switched off with the pump altogether during all winter time-it is a one-in-all pump system and I cannot switch the uv light on/off independently. I avoided to run the pump/uv during winter time to avoid water cooling too much - am I wrong? Also, thanks a lot about the test strips advice. I will go with the liquid ones in the future

 

[Anita.P.]

Your right it looks like a fugus but not a bad case from what i see. Potassium permanganate Works very well on bacterial and fungal infections . BUT YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK before going this route , read several articles on it. Even placing straight undiluted on the actual spot and let it sit can do the job , but it can burn the fish too.
But the real answer is better water quality . There is so much more then just ammonia nitrate nitrite. Your running toward chemicals to fix the issue. The picture does not show a bad case of anything. Fish are incredibly resistant to disease when then have proper water conditions. We have all grabbed a fish and felt the slimy coating well that is a biological suit of armor. you can dump parasites into a pond with good water quality and a good diet no over crowding or feeding and they will be fine. oNCE THE WARMER WEATHER COMES IN AND YOUR BENIFICIAL BACTERIA KICKS IN . that alone may take care of the problem . But dosing one treatment then another and another is not a ideal situation

Potassium permanganate - How to use

Information and online shop of interest to aquaculture and the breeding, collection of koi, goldfish and ornamental fish.

www.koinet.net

You mentioned you have a small pond. Well that would be the understatement of the day 400l is only 90 gallons . Koi minimum gallons is 1000 for the first fish, 500 per koi after that.
You said you had more fish in the pond?
Koi are not a breed i would consider for that size body of water Goldfish at max . i'd even go as far as 2 goldfish with some schools of minnows.

Your right it looks like a fugus but not a bad case from what i see. Potassium permanganate Works very well on bacterial and fungal infections . BUT YOU NEED TO DO YOUR HOMEWORK before going this route , read several articles on it. Even placing straight undiluted on the actual spot and let it sit can do the job , but it can burn the fish too.
But the real answer is better water quality . There is so much more then just ammonia nitrate nitrite. Your running toward chemicals to fix the issue. The picture does not show a bad case of anything. Fish are incredibly resistant to disease when then have proper water conditions. We have all grabbed a fish and felt the slimy coating well that is a biological suit of armor. you can dump parasites into a pond with good water quality and a good diet no over crowding or feeding and they will be fine. oNCE THE WARMER WEATHER COMES IN AND YOUR BENIFICIAL BACTERIA KICKS IN . that alone may take care of the problem . But dosing one treatment then another and another is not a ideal situation

Potassium permanganate - How to use

Information and online shop of interest to aquaculture and the breeding, collection of koi, goldfish and ornamental fish.

www.koinet.net

Sorry for not mentioning, I have only 2 mature goldfish- one shubunkin - 8 years, one comet - 2 years( the one in the pic).Unfortunately the commet got worse this morning - extreme flashing, gasping, then just like floating. Unfortunately here in UK urgent / proper medicine is not widely available in a timely manner. Had just to act quickly. The comet is now quarantined (shed house/outside) with anti-fungus/ fin rot medicine (plus aeration), the best I could get in the shop, bought to the to the best knowledge I currently posses.

Yes, I need to do definitely something with quality of the pond, where it all started in the first place and find the root cause. Guessing it was due to some old leaves sitting on the bottom and filter/uv pump not running. Been advised not run it during winter due to not moving the cold water to the bottom and disturb the fish , which can indeed create issues/stress the fish. Could be this starting the whole chain of reactions?

 

[Anita.P.]

Melafix and pimafix are not effective treatments. The only thing most knowledgeable ponders think they are good for is making your wallet lighter.

Water quality issues are the main cause of fish problems, especially fungus problems. Usually, correcting the condition of the water will allow the fish to heal on its own.

You need to test the water with liquid tests kits so you will know the water's condition.

If you will do that and post the results here, we should be able to help you improve the water to help your fish.

Thanks for such an honest and practical advice. I will definitely order some of liquid tests and look into it.

Keep you updated. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Laaf]

My goldfish sometimes change color over winter and get white spots/areas. One got black coloration that faded in the spring. Maybe your fish just has some areas without orange that are not fungus. I am not seeing fungus when I look at the pics. Also some of my orange goldfish get whiter areas that I have wondered if it was an injury. A number of my goldfish have gotten whiter tips as they get older. (started all orange, tips get white with age). If what you think is fungus is not curing or going away, it may just be your goldfish's color.

 

[Lisak1]

I wondered the same thing @Laaf - but it does appear to be a bit fuzzy around the margins.

 

[Anita.P.]

Good afternoon everybody,

Just a quick update. It's been one week and half of quarantine. Meanwhile I quarantined the other goldfish as well - some clamped fins/slight bloating issues appeared. Upon a closer look and some research I think the orange one in the pics has columnaris, along with some very slight tail rot (barely visible, but there). All of these are now gone , except the spots on the head.

The spots did not disappear and the fish is not eating yet - it is winter time anyway. However, the fins are not clamped anymore and both of them are active and swimming properly with 50% water changes on a daily basis.

Meanwhile I've done a full water change for the pond and started up the filter (beneficial bacteria added) - however, hard to say how effective will it be as outside are only 8/9 degrees C during the day.

And yes, tested the water liquid tests (Api freshwater pond master) and compared to the test strips. There are some differences, looks like the test strips are less sensitive to ammonia.


Thank you everybody for your help and have a wonderful spring.

Anita

 

[Anita.P.]

Hi all,

Last update...hopefully.

Decided to put both fish back to the pond. Both of them seemed to be doing well, even though the orange one still had the white patch. At this point, I considered would be best for them to return in the cleaned pond and leave their immune system to recover and do its job.

It's been 5 weeks already and the white patch is almost completely gone and the fish are doing well.

Thank you very much for the help and good advice. Wishing everybody a wonderful spring.

 

[GBBUDD]

I wish the go to for fish problems was to look at ones filter system and not run to the chemical bottle.
Fungus is a sign that, that particular fish has a lower immune system then does your other fish in the infected area was it due to chemicals harming the slime coating of the fish. Possible... You have to realize that slime coating is what keeps a fish healthy from most parasites, bacterial and fungal issues. The fish is stressed out usually when it's a fungal issues. The slime has been disturbed was it from rubbing against a rock, or water quality issue who knows.
The first thing I would try is to help the fish . Not try to kill the issues also straining the fish.(gasping at the surface) Try a quarantine tank but give the fish start right with aloe or stress coat. Test the waters make it as balanced as possible and give the fish a week or two with a recommended addition of stress coat. Helping the fish get better will help it fight off the fungus naturally . A healthy fish can live in a pond along with many types of parasites and next get one stuck to them