HELP! diy pond filter

[HTH]

We go Vortex, Jap Matting filter(with zeolite and sponges),

rgrds

Dave

The biofilter should be taking care of your ammonia so why the zeolite? When you put fresh zeo in it competes with the bacteria then when it is used up the bacteria has to increase in numbers only to go hungry the next time you replace the zeo.

I have little or no use for the stuff.

 

[HTH]

I had to lookup what alfagrog, flocor and K3

alfagrog sounds like a lighweight version of lava rock.

flocor sounds like an improved version of my bits of PVC pipe, not sure on flocor's size

K3 works on the same principle as flocor

I would use the media in this order. Flocor, K3, then alfagrog
The flocor and K3 are close enough in what they do that you could swap them just think of them as the same sort of media

alfagrog is last because it will not backflush as well as the others so we want to use it primarily as a biological stage, feed it mechanically clean water. It will still generate dead bacteria but with some luck that might not be a problem. If it is you break it down every year or so and clean it.

I would use the plastic media like flocor in the first barrel and alfagrog in the next. Sort of like sanding or polishing.. If you did a good job and trap all the particles you can in each stage you do not need to use the coarser media again. Move from course to fine. Not course fine course fine.

Another option would be to make two identical filters and split the flow between them. Slow flow makes it easier for particles to settle.

This filter will work best after it is used a bit. When back flushing it results in what looks like sewage you know it is working well.

EDIT: I should add that as the filter matures it will do a decent job on keeping the water clear but that is secondary to biological filtration. You can live without clear water but the fish need bio filtration to live.

If one wants polished water you can get a swimming pool sand filter and use it to polish the water but I would not want to run it all the time as it uses a lot electricity compared to low pressure filters like the barrels. People often buy above ground pools that come with sand filters. When the cover and liner die they are often carted off to the dump. Maybe craigs list?

The house next door had one and when the owner moved out he gave me the filter. I have not set it up. Thinking of also plumbing the pool pump in so I can use it as a water fall booster pump. On a yet to be built pond.

Have fun

 

[ohfortunate1]

ty very much Howard info has made it so much clearer to understand thanks for taking the time to help.
Ian


and thanks to evryone who has had there input all of wich has been taken on board :blueflower: :boldblue: :claphands:

 

[HTH]

I should have warned you up front that I am radical, cheap, and at times wrong. First two makes the 2nd hard to avoid.

 

[koiguy1969]

i have used zeolite as well.... pump to biofilter , from biofilter thru zeolite container and back to pond. the zeolite catches what the bio lets thru. i also use zeolite alone for fry tubs.

 

[HTH]

Koiguy, regarding the use in ponds, I do not understand how anything that absorbs ammonia is a good thing. The bacteria are supposed to do that.. Have you done low level ammonia testing with and without the zeo or anything that would indicate it is not just extra work ?

And I realize ponding is not the same for everyone and learning what others do is one of the reasons I am here.

 

[koiguy1969]

You could theoretically use zeolite and no biofilter.. zeolite does a fantastic job of ammonia elimination. and yes, its true that its the bacterias job.so? let the baceria levels will fluccuate according to the food supply. they already do. and zeolite is not really any work.. you shut off the water supply to the container of zeolite dump in some salt and let it sit over night. drain the water out, (the salt and ammonia will drain with it). rinse it out. restart the water flow. thru it. takes 5 minutes... every couple weeks.
the real benefit really comes into play on a dedicated koi pond... no plants to use up the nitrates. so the elimination of the ammonias before converted to nitrites,(still poisonous) and nitrates that have nothing to use them.

 

[Dave 54]

Our pond and its use of zeolite goes as follows nothing in the first chamber and it is used as a vortex, the next has as I have said before is Jap Matting Zeolite and sponge.
The third filter has the same amount of Jap Matting built in the same configuration i;e a porcullis type build with Lithaqua and batting .
The last in line is our bio filter with K1 aquaone bio balls and another type of them this then as I've said before reduces down to 2" pipework, then to inline pump and U/V-C .
The zeolite does not effect our bio filter in anyway.
You describe yourself as radical cheap ok but do your homework and you'll find koi guy and I are right in the use of zeolite
Alpha grog is fine as things go but the sheer weight of it in one of our 32" diameter filters makes it impractical to use with our disabilities Val has MD I chronic Ostio Arthritis .
Swimming pool sand filters shouldnt really be run because they are for use on swimming pools not fish ponds.
If your doing things on the cheap your only going to spend more money correcting mistakes so why not splash out a little cash to getthings right first time around.

rgrds

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Further your last about alph grog, we removed it from our forth filter then the same 32" diameter vortex style filter and changed it to K1 etc .
Within twelve months of doing this the filter developed a split that couldn't be repaired, this we have put down as he filter being directly influenced by the weight it had to carry with the alpha grog.
Removing the alpha grog caused the plastic to retract, i;e it tried unsuccessfully to return to its normal shape but couldn't hense the split developing and us having to scrap this filter and replace it with a large barrel filter.
A little like land after it has been under an ice sheet for thousands of years in some places such as Norway you can see the land has risen by a good 6ft or more after a rock was carved with the differing levels the water level has been at before it raised again and again up to the 6ft level we see now
So its sort of swings and roundabouts you win some and loose some whatever you use.
Both koiguy69 and ourselves use zeolite without a problem between us we have many years of koi keeping behind us and have settled on the use of zeolite in the well being of our koi, we have two aged 27 years this year.
Admittedly weve only been outsde for 4-5 years now and we have knowledge of indoor keeping but we have also taken to the pond in such a way that all our koi are hail and hearty after going through a very steep learning curve,(we got dropped into the coldest winter on record for the UK)however we learned this curve and have lost no fish to the pond apart from one that died late spring of our first year outdoors.
The koi was found to have a problem ith its immune system and would not have survived any treatment so it was euthanised using MS222

rgrds

Dave

rgrds

Dave

 

[HTH]

Thanks Koiguy

I have used zeolite in aquariums for emergencies with tropical fish. With fancy goldfish aquariums weekly water changes of 75 to 100% are used. It had never occurred to me that one could afford to buy zeolite in quantities large enough to service a large-ish pond. I am more into plants and fish thing and have not spend any real time with the koi only crowd.

The fancy goldfish are often kept in bare bottom tanks. In a way they are small versions of the very clean koi ponds. I have never seen anyone on that side of the hobby use zeolite in place of the water changes. If it has not been tried it should be. Many of the show breeder goldfish guys are interested in the traditional methods and I might well get chastised for mentioning it. Big fish, small pond thing. There are some that think growth is inhibited by hormones and the water changes are needed to combat that. I do not claim to know.

Dave

You describe yourself as radical cheap ok but do your homework and you'll find koi guy and I are right in the use of zeolite

Maybe I could have stated the bit about zeolite use better. This is 'water garden' forum, had I asked these questions on a koi forum I might agree that I should have done more homework. Here it is not part of the ABCs for newbies.

The zeolite does not effect our bio filter in anyway.

I take this to mean in no negative way.

It seems the idea here that using the zeolite after the biological filter is different the using it prior to it. Seems reasonable. This makes sense especially regarding ammonia fluctuation. I do think it would be interesting to see some graphs of ammonia levels with and without if they exist. Once could set this up with an aquarium. Need to find out which ammonia test kit best registers low levels.

Swimming pool sand filters shouldnt really be run because they are for use on swimming pools not fish ponds.
If your doing things on the cheap your only going to spend more money correcting mistakes so why not splash out a little cash to getthings right first time around.

Why not use a pool/sand filter for polishing water. Obviously one would replace the sand and clean it well.

I never understood the guys who shell out big bucks for a custom car or a koi then puff up with pride when they drag it to a show. I have been builder/tinker/engineer/scientist all my life and find far more joy in creating and the learning associated with it then buying.

I realize that people with high pressure jobs spend far too much time at work and buying is their only choice. Been there and do not miss it.

 

[koiguy1969]

HTH...its not hormones...its pharamones that are said,can buildup and can slow growth patterns and if levels get high enuff shut down the immune system of koi. i hadnt heard this about goldfish, but theyre all in the same family 'carp' tho.

 

[HTH]

HTH...its not hormones...its pharamones that are said,can buildup and can slow growth patterns and if levels get high enuff shut down the immune system of koi. i hadnt heard this about goldfish, but theyre all in the same family 'carp' tho.

LOL yup hormones, pharamones . My bad

 

[sissy]

sex education where you absent :cheerful: I can tell you were babies come from

 

[HTH]

Where were you 20 years ago when I was young enough to want them ?

 

[sissy]

I had 2 and figured it all out and stopped it there that's why one was born in 74 and one in 86 and then no more .I guess i should have paid more attention myself .I didn't want children but hubby did i told him why not get a dog instead . Well that did not work .