Help - Pond is too Shallow

[poconojoe]

It's not an easy task to join two liners. You need the proper kit for the type of liner material. The area has to be dry and hospital clean. You have to be careful you aren't stretching the material as you do it.

If I read it right, your koi are all gone.
If you don't want to dig another larger pond, it's the perfect time to restock with shubunkin instead of koi. Shubunkin are beautiful fish in the goldfish family. Colorful with long flowing fins. They don't get huge or excrete a tremendous amount of waste like koi do.
There are many other types of goldfish that are nice looking too. I have a few that have really nice flowing fins.

Unfortunately, a lot of people want a "koi pond", not realizing the enormous needs that koi require.
A lot of us found this out the hard way. Our cool little koi turn into huge 3 foot monsters with tremendous girth. Our filters suddenly can't handle the tremendous waste they produce, so our water quality suffers.

It's not the fault of new comers into the hobby, it's the way koi are presented in society, for lack of a better word. It's almost like the word koi is synonymous to garden ponding.

 

[GBBUDD]

It's not an easy task to join two liners. You need the proper kit for the type of liner material. The area has to be dry and hospital clean. You have to be careful you aren't stretching the material as you do it.

While i agree it's not easy to seam LARGE LONG joint In the field on an existing pond, that can be very tricky and require so patience and skill, Seaming a shorter seam is not that hard. I have taught many in past years how to seam on roofs and very rarely have they needed constant oversight. Its the wrinkles that make it hard to seam.

 

[GBBUDD]

I’m reading that the minimum size for a koi pond should be 6x8x4, https://fishkeepingforever.com/minimum-pond-size-for-koi/ which confirms that the pond is too small for koi and if I want to have koi I will need to start over and make the entire pond four feet deep. UGH!

4 feet deep is preferred in my book but is not a must. More then probably three quarters of the ponds out there are 3 feet or less

 

[GBBUDD]

4 feet deep is preferred in my book but is not a must. More then probably three quarters of the ponds out there are 3 feet or less

That is probably the same number for aquascapes ponds

 

[Lisak1]

That is probably the same number for aquascapes ponds

I bet that's spot on accurate.

And here's the thing - while a deeper pond ALLOWS for the fish to go deeper when there's a heron or other predator, there's no guarantee that they WILL. If that were the case, these birds would never catch a single fish in the wild or in a garden pond. Fish can have very short attention spans and herons are very VERY skilled hunters who are incredibly patient. We have scads of green and great blue herons as well as snowy egrets near our house - they fly over constantly. I've seen them stand in one spot in the natural ponds in our neighborhood for hours, just waiting. They wait for the fish to forget they are there and then they strike. They will also do tricky things like regurgitate on the water so the fish think someone or something dropped food for them and up they come, only to be stabbed and possibly eaten. I say possibly, because they don't eat everything they catch... some fish are too big and just get tossed aside. I've also read that once a heron spots a location where fish are present, they mark it with some form of bird GPS and never ever forget where that spot was. They will continue checking that spot as long as it takes to finally get those fish.

So dig deeper if that's your desire, but don't assume you will outsmart the heron that way.

 

[mgmine]

Forget about trying to glue two pieces of liner together while it's in the pond, it just isn't going to work. I don't know how big the pond is but from what it looks like in the picture I wouldn't go more than 2 Koi. Plant some cover so the fish can hide and keep out of the sun. Also, try putting fishing line about 8 to 10 inches above the shoreline. When the heron feel it on their legs they don't like to go any closer. But if they are landing in the water that won't help. A net of lead might be your only choice.

 

[GBBUDD]

Not exactly sure how your seeing the conditions in gluing two pieces of liner together @mgmine . But it is entirely possible with some patience determination and planning. Case in point the videos more or less show how to seam the photos and text are what i did to put an extension onto my pond while the fish stayed in the pond i drained the pond approximately 24" pulled up the liner and the rest o the story is in the link
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/seaming-epdm-liner.26807/

 

[Tula]

Unless you have your heart set on koi, I'd net the pond and restock with shubunkin

 

[Tula]

Here is an idea for covering your pond. We use electrical conduit to make hoops over the pond and then cover with a net. We have 4 adult koi.

 

[mgmine]

Not exactly sure how your seeing the conditions in gluing two pieces of liner together @mgmine . But it is entirely possible with some patience determination and planning. Case in point the videos more or less show how to seam the photos and text are what i did to put an extension onto my pond while the fish stayed in the pond i drained the pond approximately 24" pulled up the liner and the rest o the story is in the link
https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/seaming-epdm-liner.26807/

Consider yourself lucky! Gluing two pieces of used rubber together and having it water-tight is a gamble at best. There are two many variables. Unless the cost of a new liner is over $500 I would just put a new one in. IF not maybe risk a hundred or so on a piece to glue in but be prepared to replace the whole liner in the future. just my HO

 

[poconojoe]

Consider yourself lucky! Gluing two pieces of used rubber together and having it water-tight is a gamble at best. There are two many variables. Unless the cost of a new liner is over $500 I would just put a new one in. IF not maybe risk a hundred or so on a piece to glue in but be prepared to replace the whole liner in the future. just my HO

I agree. Why take a chance.
Do it right and once. Spend the time and money on a bigger liner.

The liner is the very basic component of your pond. Everything else is built up on top of that.
If the seam fails you will probably end up replacing the whole liner anyway. Everything has to come out, plants, fish, skimmers, waterfalls, everything.

 

[GBBUDD]

Agreed on a small pond barely bigger then a sheet of plywood absolutely get a new liner they are cheap enough thats one time being cheap could cost big. . But for those reading who don't have a small pond and need to seam will look at your statement and say it's not possible . it is entirely possible it just has to be practical.

 

[Wetlands09]

View attachment 137215@Wetlands09
I use a net over my pond up high on posts so I can walk under it to get in if need be. It also hangs down the sides and I connect it to a short wire fence so critters can't get under it or through it. It is now as good as Fort Knox! It won't matter how deep your pond is for a heron. He/she will just walk up to the edge and wait forever till a fish comes to the surface and then jabs it. The bird has the patience of Job in the Bible,lol!

Wow ok so deeper really is not going to be a solution to stop the heron.From what everyone is writing perhaps some fishing line and maybe a decoy are a good bet. Thank you!

 

[Wetlands09]

It's not an easy task to join two liners. You need the proper kit for the type of liner material. The area has to be dry and hospital clean. You have to be careful you aren't stretching the material as you do it.

If I read it right, your koi are all gone.
If you don't want to dig another larger pond, it's the perfect time to restock with shubunkin instead of koi. Shubunkin are beautiful fish in the goldfish family. Colorful with long flowing fins. They don't get huge or excrete a tremendous amount of waste like koi do.
There are many other types of goldfish that are nice looking too. I have a few that have really nice flowing fins.

Unfortunately, a lot of people want a "koi pond", not realizing the enormous needs that koi require.
A lot of us found this out the hard way. Our cool little koi turn into huge 3 foot monsters with tremendous girth. Our filters suddenly can't handle the tremendous waste they produce, so our water quality suffers.

It's not the fault of new comers into the hobby, it's the way koi are presented in society, for lack of a better word. It's almost like the word koi is synonymous to garden ponding.

You really make some fantastic points here thank you. If I get the goldfish the dang heron is still going to be an issue. It sounds like I don’t have many options to protect the fish.

 

[Wetlands09]

Agreed on a small pond barely bigger then a sheet of plywood absolutely get a new liner they are cheap enough thats one time being cheap could cost big. . But for those reading who don't have a small pond and need to seam will look at your statement and say it's not possible . it is entirely possible it just has to be practical.

I have read several articles that it is possible but again a big risk should it not be absolutely perfectly done. I guess at the end of the day we are happy with this labor of love, it is 3’ in the dead center then about 20” for the rest of the pond. I just am kicking myself for not going deeper. My wife is already petrified that I might rip it up and start over and go deeper.