Hi, Im new to Koi and could really do with some advice

[Pinknelly]

My pond is nay 1700 gallons, but I have a waterfall and the filter return line splashing into the pond. Additionally I run a large aerator . You pond is large, it's possible you may need more O2.

Your pond sounds lovely. I will post a picture of mine as soon as I can figure out how to do it. I also have a waterfall which runs on a circular water system. The pump operates in the pond and has a large satellite running from it, drawing water from two pond locations up to the head of the waterfall. Al the water is passed through a pretty large filtration tank and a UV light first. This helps a huge amount with the debris and muck and the light control algae bloom, to a certain extent. I need to replace the bulbs as I think they are past their best now.
How would you suggest i get in more O2? do I need more? The larger koi seem pretty healthy and lively, no gulping for air, I would have expected them to be suffering if O2 was a problem or is that not the case?

 

[Pinknelly]

Welcome pinknelly glad to have you here. We would love to see pictures if you can upload them. I agree with everything above. A question about oxygen though, I know you say you have a waterfall but do you have plenty of mixing, ie: does the water stir in all parts of your pond? Also algae, even carpet algae, will suck the oxygen from a pond at night. Do you find the dead gf in the morning? Just a thought.

Hi fishylove.
I have the main pump and a satellite, its a reasonable sized pump and a UV light to help keep down the algae. also the pumped water passes through a pretty big box filter. I have found fish at all times of day morning and evening.

There are several large established lillies. Could that be a problem?

I'll upload pictures once I have figured out how to do it.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello, and welcome, if I haven't said that in a previous post!

The second thing I thought of was quarantine, but I won't go into that as many others have addressed it already.

But on a related subject, the first thing I thought of....WATER QUALITY and fish loads.

You have a nice, large pond that has been established for a while. Do you have any idea how many fish were in the pond before you added the new fish? It's possible that these fish have been having babies for a while, and your pond may have been at or close to it's capacity and more or less, "biologically balanced."

The "germs" [or whatever] that cause fish diseases are already in your water. They are everywhere. As long as your system and your fish are healthy and not stressed or injured, the fish will stay healthy. But if anything happens to upset that balance, such as adding new fish, there will be a shift in water quality that can stress both the old and new fish. Once stressed, the fish are more prone to catch these diseases. Bringing new fish into the pond adds to the disease potential because the new fish are already stressed, plus they might be carrying something that's not already in the pond that could further stress & weaken the older fish. That's why I used the word "balanced." Because there is a balance in nature.

And sometimes things just happen and you never know why -- someone once suggested that I keep a journal of things that go on with my pond. Sometimes you can find clues or spot trends. One member suffered fish deaths while on vacation and found out later that a nearby farmer had been spraying his crops -- she could never be sure, but strongly suspected that the spray was carried by wind. You just never know......

One of the things we ask is that you tell us your EXACT water test results (and if I missed that, I apologize). Can you tell us what they were / are? Also, do you have a way of measuring the water temperature?

 

[Dave 54]

Hi everyone,
I inherited a pretty large pond 35 x 15 x 3.5 ft. six years ago. It's really established. It has a large filter, a waterfall for air which runs on a circular system with a satellite and several large water lillies. I have always had goldfish and small black carp along with newts, frogs, toads, snails and anything else you can think of.

I recently added a few Koi of various sizes, nothing huge, the largest was about 12 inches. They seem well really settled and happy, feeding well. I have also added about 50 small goldfish recently, in batches of 10 at a time.

Suddenly over the last week or so, the gold fish and black carp have started dying. Sometimes I find one a day or sometimes more, one horrid day I found 8. They have no fungus visible and in fact they look healthy, if you can say that about a dead fish!

I have tested the water and all marker including ammonia, nitrates, chlorine etc are good. Its not too hot in the UK. I guess if it was air then the larger fish would suffer first but they are really fine.

Could it be the food?
I wonder about insecticides from nearby farms?
Bacteria?

One thing I have noticed is that some of the goldfish seem to have lost their pigment. They started off a very bright orange but one or two have gone white. Not fungus, just white, like they have been washed.. That's odd isnt it?

Any suggestions would be welcome.

The pond is 10,000 gallons so I don't think i'm over stocked and I don't think I stocked too quickly.

Hi I'm from the UK and may be best placed to help you with your problems , I noted you didnt QT your goldfish before they went into the pond (diesilplower my friend feeder goldfish are not a UK thing and all fish are normally healthy when sold from fish outlets so they wouldnt habe been weak at all mate).
My wife and I have been koi keeping for 27 years now do you have any books on koi that you can read if not please feel free to browse our large koi/fish/ health and Fish disease library :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/our-fish-koi-health-library-with-reviews-of-each-book.10498/

Then go on amazon and get one or two books on koi heath which will help you understand them and their needs more

Can you tell me if you have had any heavy rain in Shropshire. of late please, if so your pond may well have been affected by a phenominum called Catastrophic Oxygen Depletion :- see bellow .

Catastrophic Oxygen Depletion Koi pond in your
During the warm spring and summer months, we receive an increased number of phone calls regarding sudden fish kills in ponds. The typical history includes observing a very large number of fish dead in an otherwise normal pond following a rainstorm or summer thunderstorm. Usually the owner is very concerned that the fish may have died due to "run-off" of farm chemicals into the pond. Most of the time, these fish kills are a result of a phenomenon known as "pond stratification." Pond stratification is somewhat of a misnomer, since the stratification can also occur in lakes, creeks and some rivers. The stratification leads to a catastrophic depletion of oxygen which almost always results in a very high mortality of aquatic animal life within 24-48 hours following the "de-stratification."
The scientific reasoning behind this phenomenon of pond stratification relates to the temperature of the pond. In the early spring, while the temperature of the pond is still relatively low, the dissolved oxygen is uniformly distributed throughout the pond. As the atmospheric temperature increases, the pond begins to stratify, that is, become layered, with the surface water becoming warmer and lighter while the cooler and denser water forms a layer underneath. Circulation of the colder bottom water is prevented because of the difference in densities between the two layers of water. Dissolved oxygen levels decrease in the bottom layer since photosynthesis and contact with the air is reduced. The already low oxygen levels are further reduced through the decomposition of waste products, which settle to the pond bottom. After a rain, or any other event which disrupts the two layers, a "de-stratification" or "turn-over" of the pond occurs. This has the effect of releasing all of the dissolved oxygen from the upper layer of the pond into the atmosphere, hence, a catastrophic oxygen depletion.
Once stratification of a pond occurs, there is nothing that can be done to alleviate the situation. However, pond stratification can be very easily prevented by the use of supplemental aeration. Aerators come in all sizes and shapes as well as different power sources, i.e., tractor p-t-o, electrical, mechanical, etc. It is important to aerate the pond properly, i.e. match the size of the aerator to the pond, since over-aeration is wasted and may even lead to oxygen supersaturation, known as "gas-bubble" disease and under-aeration will not prevent stratification.
In those cases where we suspect catastrophic oxygen depletion, all other possible pathogens including bacterial, viral, parasitic agents are eleminated from the differential diagnosis list. However, the history of several days to weeks of warm weather followed by a sudden rainstorm are highly suggestive of this condition. If you suspect that you are dealing with a pond turn-over situation following pond stratification, it is imperative to have the pond owner take a water sample and have the dissolved oxygen (DO) concentration evaluated immediately. This water sample should be collected in a clean glass jar or bottle with a screw-top lid and should be completely filled by completely submersing the sample and container and placing the lid on the container while it is still under water.
By: Tim Muench, DVM, MS
Edited by: Randy White,DVM, PhD

Next do you do regular water changes on your pond as well as filter mantenance, and what kit do you use to read your water perameters stick or drop , if you answer drop test kits all is fine, if stick then I would suggest you changing them as strip test kits are often wide of the mark.
Do you have oxygen being pumped into the pond from an air pump , if not do so ,



Dave

 

[Pinknelly]

Hi I'm from the UK and may be best placed to help you with your problems , I noted you didnt QT your goldfish before they went into the pond (diesilplower my friend feeder goldfish are not a UK thing and all fish are normally healthy when sold from fish outlets so they wouldnt habe been weak at all mate).
My wife and I have been koi keeping for 27 years now do you have any books on koi that you can read if not please feel free to browse our large koi/fish/ health and Fish disease library :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/our-fish-koi-health-library-with-reviews-of-each-book.10498/

Then go on amazon and get one or two books on koi heath which will help you understand them and their needs more

Can you tell me if you have had any heavy rain in Shropshire. of late please, if so your pond may well have been affected by a phenominum called Catastrophic Oxygen Depletion :- see bellow .

Catastrophic Oxygen Depletion Koi pond in your
During the warm spring and summer months, we receive an increased number of phone calls regarding sudden fish kills in ponds. The typical history includes observing a very large number of fish dead in an otherwise normal pond following a rainstorm or summer thunderstorm. Usually the owner is very concerned that the fish may have died due to "run-off" of farm chemicals into the pond. Most of the time, these fish kills are a result of a phenomenon known as "pond stratification." Pond stratification is somewhat of a misnomer, since the stratification can also occur in lakes, creeks and some rivers. The stratification leads to a catastrophic depletion of oxygen which almost always results in a very high mortality of aquatic animal life within 24-48 hours following the "de-stratification."
The scientific reasoning behind this phenomenon of pond stratification relates to the temperature of the pond. In the early spring, while the temperature of the pond is still relatively low, the dissolved oxygen is uniformly distributed throughout the pond. As the atmospheric temperature increases, the pond begins to stratify, that is, become layered, with the surface water becoming warmer and lighter while the cooler and denser water forms a layer underneath. Circulation of the colder bottom water is prevented because of the difference in densities between the two layers of water. Dissolved oxygen levels decrease in the bottom layer since photosynthesis and contact with the air is reduced. The already low oxygen levels are further reduced through the decomposition of waste products, which settle to the pond bottom. After a rain, or any other event which disrupts the two layers, a "de-stratification" or "turn-over" of the pond occurs. This has the effect of releasing all of the dissolved oxygen from the upper layer of the pond into the atmosphere, hence, a catastrophic oxygen depletion.
Once stratification of a pond occurs, there is nothing that can be done to alleviate the situation. However, pond stratification can be very easily prevented by the use of supplemental aeration. Aerators come in all sizes and shapes as well as different power sources, i.e., tractor p-t-o, electrical, mechanical, etc. It is important to aerate the pond properly, i.e. match the size of the aerator to the pond, since over-aeration is wasted and may even lead to oxygen supersaturation, known as "gas-bubble" disease and under-aeration will not prevent stratification.
In those cases where we suspect catastrophic oxygen depletion, all other possible pathogens including bacterial, viral, parasitic agents are eleminated from the differential diagnosis list. However, the history of several days to weeks of warm weather followed by a sudden rainstorm are highly suggestive of this condition. If you suspect that you are dealing with a pond turn-over situation following pond stratification, it is imperative to have the pond owner take a water sample and have the dissolved oxygen (DO) concentration evaluated immediately. This water sample should be collected in a clean glass jar or bottle with a screw-top lid and should be completely filled by completely submersing the sample and container and placing the lid on the container while it is still under water.
By: Tim Muench, DVM, MS
Edited by: Randy White,DVM, PhD

Next do you do regular water changes on your pond as well as filter mantenance, and what kit do you use to read your water perameters stick or drop , if you answer drop test kits all is fine, if stick then I would suggest you changing them as strip test kits are often wide of the mark.
Do you have oxygen being pumped into the pond from an air pump , if not do so ,



Dave

Hi,
Thanks for this really helpful post. I think you could have hit the nail on the head. It had been a warm summer and we did have a series of sudden storms very recently. I'll have a look at the oxygen pump down the other end of the pond, away from the waterfall, that may make a big difference. I'll do a bit of research. I do test the water with the drop tests and all is as it should be. I kept tropicals indoors for a while and got used to the chemistry there. I clean the filter pads with a bath of pond water not tap water which I have read is the right thing to do. They don't come up spotless but it gets rid of the general slime. Unlike the tropical tank, I don't change the water in the pond. its pretty huge at 10,000 gallons and i'm not sure how I would go about it?
many thanks.

 

[Dave 54]

Hi,
Thanks for this really helpful post. I think you could have hit the nail on the head. It had been a warm summer and we did have a series of sudden storms very recently. I'll have a look at the oxygen pump down the other end of the pond, away from the waterfall, that may make a big difference. I'll do a bit of research. I do test the water with the drop tests and all is as it should be. I kept tropicals indoors for a while and got used to the chemistry there. I clean the filter pads with a bath of pond water not tap water which I have read is the right thing to do. They don't come up spotless but it gets rid of the general slime. Unlike the tropical tank, I don't change the water in the pond. its pretty huge at 10,000 gallons and i'm not sure how I would go about it?
many thanks.

I hope the information our library carries will enable you to buy a number of books (it now has over 84 titles but I'm working on the backlog (hard to do with short term memory issues) but I'm slowly getting there
Mine is only 1,000 gallons so a water change is easy for me, "I have health issues as a reasult of a bike accident many years ago and the good lafy has MD so 1,000 gallons is large enough anymore would probably be a struggle.
What filters do you have on the pond we have 3 32" votrex style filters and a large barrel filter if yours is a multi bay can we suggest if you dont already do it to supply each bay with air, for instance we have no airstones in our first filter which is the vortex the next two have three in each of them and the barrel filter with the K1, bio balls and bio chips has six airstones.
These are supplid by an airtec 40e, we have another 40e supplying our spindrifter bottomdrain cover /bubbler.
I'll look into how you do a water change on a pond your size if they are done at all but if it turns out you dont filter maintenance would become vitally important, do you have bottom drains on your pond ? if not do you ever vacuum the bottom ?

Dave

 

[Pinknelly]

I hope the information our library carries will enable you to buy a number of books (it now has over 84 titles but I'm working on the backlog (hard to do with short term memory issues) but I'm slowly getting there
Mine is only 1,000 gallons so a water change is easy for me, "I have health issues as a reasult of a bike accident many years ago and the good lafy has MD so 1,000 gallons is large enough anymore would probably be a struggle.
What filters do you have on the pond we have 3 32" votrex style filters and a large barrel filter if yours is a multi bay can we suggest if you dont already do it to supply each bay with air, for instance we have no airstones in our first filter which is the vortex the next two have three in each of them and the barrel filter with the K1, bio balls and bio chips has six airstones.
These are supplid by an airtec 40e, we have another 40e supplying our spindrifter bottomdrain cover /bubbler.
I'll look into how you do a water change on a pond your size if they are done at all but if it turns out you dont filter maintenance would become vitally important, do you have bottom drains on your pond ? if not do you ever vacuum the bottom ?

Dave

Hi Dave,
I feel a bit inadequate here. I have no idea what type of filter I have but I can tell you it is nothing fancy. It has large plastic shapes at the bottom and them multiple layers of various types of sponge type material. All of different colours and thickness and coursness. I have started cleaning it weekly and it gets pretty filthy. really disgusting actually. I am sure the regular cleaning of the filter is making a big difference. the small gold fish are still dying but this has really reduced, i am finding about one every three days. I dread going down to the pond. I also have an issue with duck weed at the moment but I am scooping the top of the pond daily, sometimes twice a day and its getting a whole lot better. I just have to keep at it. None of the koi have died and all look very healthy. I don't have a pond vacuum and I done have a bottom drain. I did buy a pond vacuum once but it was a disaster, it just made a total mess and i couldn't see any benefit so I ditched that idea.

I spoke to someone locally recently who said that it would be a vast job to empty and clean the pond, especially with so much wildlife in it. To be honest I never wanted an empty clear pond and prefer a natural pond. I have seen some stunning koi ponds that have nothing in them except fish and a blue liner and are spotless but this is not what I am looking for. I really want a health, natural pond, I want to keep the lillies, as long as the koi will allow me to, and all the other wildlife. I will keep it clean with the filters and am probably going to but an oxygen pump for the other end of the pond, further away from the waterfall to cover that end.
Hopefully that will do the trick.

 

[JohnHuff]

I'm coming in late here but it looks like you made some drastic changes by adding a lot of fish to your pond in a short time recently.

First things first.
- Have you tested your water?
- Can you take a picture of your filter(s) and your pond and post them here.
- Don't get rid of your duckweed! Plants neutralizes the waste products that fish put out.
- Don't empty and clean out your pond.
- Have you done any water changes?

 

[Dave 54]

Hi Dave,
I feel a bit inadequate here. I have no idea what type of filter I have but I can tell you it is nothing fancy. It has large plastic shapes at the bottom and them multiple layers of various types of sponge type material. All of different colours and thickness and coursness. I have started cleaning it weekly and it gets pretty filthy. really disgusting actually. I am sure the regular cleaning of the filter is making a big difference. the small gold fish are still dying but this has really reduced, i am finding about one every three days. I dread going down to the pond. I also have an issue with duck weed at the moment but I am scooping the top of the pond daily, sometimes twice a day and its getting a whole lot better. I just have to keep at it. None of the koi have died and all look very healthy. I don't have a pond vacuum and I done have a bottom drain. I did buy a pond vacuum once but it was a disaster, it just made a total mess and i couldn't see any benefit so I ditched that idea.

I spoke to someone locally recently who said that it would be a vast job to empty and clean the pond, especially with so much wildlife in it. To be honest I never wanted an empty clear pond and prefer a natural pond. I have seen some stunning koi ponds that have nothing in them except fish and a blue liner and are spotless but this is not what I am looking for. I really want a health, natural pond, I want to keep the lillies, as long as the koi will allow me to, and all the other wildlife. I will keep it clean with the filters and am probably going to but an oxygen pump for the other end of the pond, further away from the waterfall to cover that end.
Hopefully that will do the trick.

I keep a clear koi pond but the sides and bottom have a beautiful layer of algae growing on them which to us looks very natural however you wanting a natural looking pond with wildlfe in it is more than probably the cause of your duckweed problem .
You want to keep koi so you simply have to come to a happy medium of plant and koi the leave things like that. However your stil going to have to do pond cleans water changes and filter your mediums to clean from time to time because as koi as they grow produce waste on a grand scale.
Then you have detritus from dying leaves to think about as well which will require removal.
We are lucky we installed a bottom drain meaning the waste and detritus are sucked along the botom of our pond and down into the bottom drain and off to our filters.
So no bottom drain means your going to have to vacuum the pond from time to time otherwise like natural ponds it will eventually become overgrown with aquati plants and will silt up plus there will be a greater risk of health issues to your koi and more incidents of what has just happened to your pond.
You simply cant just put koi in a pond and leave them you have to do filter and pond maintenance otherwise your going to have no koi or any other fish
Could you please take a phot of your filter so we can have a look at the type your on about please.
Last but not least go away and have a long hard think about whats been said if you still want koi all well and good ,but maintenance and water changes are part and parcel of fish keeping theres no other way around it ," you dont get ow't for nowt as we notherners say", and that's a very true saying .




Dave