how hot is too hot?

[rally]

hello all,

got tired of looking at green water and finally got a UV solution. a self-contained submersible with its own pump, it took about a week to make a real difference. its still a little cloudy but a huge improvement.

anyway, on to the next problem (do they ever end??)

as summer is coming on obviously temps are rising and so is the water temp in my pond (approx 300 gal). about 6 pm today it was 85 F. nights it cools down into 70s again, but its still May and already in mid-80s.

- how hot is dangerous for goldfish?

- aside from floating plant coverage, is there anything i can do to keep it cooler?

- could the UV light contribute to warmer temps?

I have one lily that is finally sprouting leaves, a new one every 3 or 4 days. Have some hyacinths, parrots feather, and some submersibles that came loose and i just let float around.

but i realize its nowhere near the 70% coverage number i have heard recommended for coverage, i would estimate its perhaps 25 to 30 percent.

are more plants my only solution? i can't do much about creating shade at this point.

rally

 

[addy1]

either plants, a piece of shade cloth. My arizona pond was 85 most of the summer, here this pond hit 90 last summer. it is full sun all day, and that is with 50% plus plant coverage. The fish did fine, over that it might be too hot.

 

[don't ask]

or if you can't do much to get shade, try adding more aeration at least

 

[crsublette]

yeah, most important is aeration. warmer water holds less dissolve oxygen. put a big air stone or a couple of the 3 foot long 5/8" air diffuser with a good pond aerator. My fancy water fountain is 435 gallons and I got the Hakko HK25-L aerator (designed for 1500 gallon pond). The aerator pumps tremendous bubbles from the bottom to the surface through my two 3 foot air diffusers. When ya do not want it so high, build your self a T valve near the pump outlet and open the valve to relieve the pressure until the bubbles are at the level you want. The air exiting the valve will make a noticeable whistling so I put a foam ball around it to lessen the sound.

Remember, it is the atmospheric pressure placed upon the surface of the water that oxygenates the water. Aerators take the least oxygenated water, which is at the pond's bottom, and pushes this water to the top so the atmospheric pressure can oxygenate it.

Also, I am told the fish like to play in the bubbles.


Addy has an impressive setup. Streams and everything. I am told streams help cool down water but, if everything is in full sun still, then I think streams would not make much of an impact.

I am told that the heat jacks with the fishes metabolism so ya gotta cut back on feeding, if ya feed, when the water gets warmer.

If possible, create a nice shade tent that ya can make beautify to help add some shade.

My fancy water fountain, stream, and waterfall flow under some huge overlapping cedar elms that shade this so my water temperature has not reached so high. Plant some cedar elms about 20 foot away from the pond and, in 15 years, you'll have some awesome shade.

 

[addy1]

lol charles, my stream gets hot, it is on a slope facing south, blasted by sun. The small ponds get real hot if I don't run it. I have the timer turning on the stream three times a day now. The deck pond also gets hot, I am going to add a small pump to squirt water into the air to help. We have some small shubunkins in that pond. That pond is almost 100% covered with floating plants to help out.

 

[Waterbug]

anyway, on to the next problem (do they ever end??)

Yes, the problems do end, as long as you don't believe in hell or are really confident in your piety.

- how hot is dangerous for goldfish?

On a scale of 1 to 10...I have no idea. If dangerous means the death of fish then it's normally a combination of things. O2 is low, no problem. A little bit of ammonia, no problem. Low O2 AND a little ammonia, big problems. That kind of deal.

The temp swings are as bad as the high temp. Larger body of water, more stable the temp.

- could the UV light contribute to warmer temps?

Yes, but such a tiny amount it isn't worth considering.

but i realize its nowhere near the 70% coverage number i have heard recommended for coverage, i would estimate its perhaps 25 to 30 percent.

People make up all kinds of numbers. 70% is no more valid than 25%. If your goal is to stabilize water temp 100% coverage is the recommended coverage. If you still want to be able to see fish pick a lower number.

are more plants my only solution? i can't do much about creating shade at this point.

Sellers of pond dye sometimes say the dye will lower the water temp. However sellers of pond products have a poor record of being informed or telling the truth about anything imo. I would get independent opinions from people who actually tested the theory before trying a dye. If a seller can't tell you a specific range that temps will be lowered, and instead just say "lower" they're lying. If they tell you 5-10F lower but never asked about the size of your pond, depth, etc., they're lying. I've never used dye so have no idea.

 

[crsublette]

Yeah forgot to mention, Waterbug beat me. Watch/test your ammonia levels. Hot temperatures increase the toxic form of ammonia, that is NH4. If you pH is high, then you NH4 could also double or more. Toxic ammonia, NH4, very very fish death reaper. Get some ammonia binder chemical just in case, use it when ya noticing ammonia going higher when water temp gets to 80 degrees.

Go for the dyes. Nothing to lose except a few bills. Theory behind the dyes is that it reduces the harmful light spectrum. Put it in; if ya notice temp drops then bingo, even if it is a couple of degrees, they add up.

 

[Waterbug]

NH4 is ammonium, less or non toxic, NH3 is the toxic ammonia.

 

[crsublette]

danget!! hahah, good catch, thanks for the correction.

Rally, if ya are really concerned, then ya can get a dissolve oxygen meter. I think this would help. If oxygen levels look like they're getting too low, then ya can add hydrogen peroxide (the 3% dilluted solution at the grocery store) at rate of 1 pint per 1,000 gallons. There are other products out there as well to increased dissolved oxygen for emergencies.

Found a dissolved oxygen article that I think may help ya understand this aspect of warmer water. There is likely better reference material someone here has; this was what I have bookmarked.