Introductory "behind the scenes" story on your Pond's ecosystem.

[crsublette]

Very one sided, go ahead and read back

Actually... it is not... Detritus in the water column will continue to break down contributing to poor water quality which will need to be filtered out by algae and plants otherwise overloading the aerobic sulfate reducing heterotrophs thus releasing toxic gases creating the poor water quality.

If there is a noticeable amount of agitation, then these dissolved organics will increase the water's surface tension creating foam that, thickness becomes so great, it can suffocate the water for air. In our ponds, we call it DOC foam; in the oceans, it is called sea foam. In freshwater ponds, only the "bad guy" heterotrophs feed on this foam.

 

[Ian]

Do you want me to lead you like dumb ass too. Im glab believes in all 3 steps, that is why i do rock bottoms, as well as alot of folks

mariobrothersleeve - throwing round insults like this helps no one. I don't want to have to lock this thread or ban you, but if you continue to insult people rather than debate things sensibly, then that's what will happen. Consider this a warning.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

What ever you want, ian this is going no where.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Actually... it is not... Detritus in the water column will continue to break down contributing to poor water quality which will need to be filtered out by algae and plants otherwise overloading the aerobic sulfate reducing heterotrophs thus releasing toxic gases creating the poor water quality.

If there is a noticeable amount of agitation, then these dissolved organics will increase the water's surface tension creating foam that, thickness becomes so great, it can suffocate the water for air. In our ponds, we call it DOC foam; in the oceans, it is called sea foam. In freshwater ponds, only the "bad guy" heterotrophs feed on this foam.

Yes, filtration, saltwater has protien skimmers, that works for them

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Actually... it is not... Detritus in the water column will continue to break down contributing to poor water quality which will need to be filtered out by algae and plants otherwise overloading the aerobic sulfate reducing heterotrophs thus releasing toxic gases creating the poor water quality.

If there is a noticeable amount of agitation, then these dissolved organics will increase the water's surface tension creating foam that, thickness becomes so great, it can suffocate the water for air. In our ponds, we call it DOC foam; in the oceans, it is called sea foam. In freshwater ponds, only the "bad guy" heterotrophs feed on this foam.

Why do you run a surface skimmer? That is what its for and to get leaves and debris before is settles

 

[Mucky_Waters]

Ian please give him a couple more days before banning him, then at least he can say he lasted a full week.
My guess is it would be a new record for him. :claphands:

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Aaahh... so you do at least use some technology...

Yet, you don't believe in the 3rd chemical, which I assume you are referring to are the various organic materials, such as crushed coral etc, to maintain pH stability... ???

Ok... Now folk can know where everyone stands now... For a guy like you that is unaware of maintaining pH stability and its affect on fish health, I really shouldn't have to say much more...

I insist on "ball shooting you" since advice from folk like you often lead to bad results for the fish since most owners will definitely want to enjoy many more fish in their ponds, as they do with their aqauriums. All ponds aren't the same and so the advice must be appropriately given to achieve the compromise between owner and fish.

I never recommend any chemical unless there are very good reasons for it and I often tell folk to stay away from those chemical and bacteria products sold by pond retailers.

Actually fella, since I'm on well water, my reliance on chemicals is zero beyond the simple oxidizer, which is also used as an antiseptic and likely a variant of it used on you in the military. I am also assuming you never go out too much due to all of the chemicals in the water you drink, unless you bring your own water everywhere you go.

What chemical additives are you talking about ??

If you're talking about ammonia lockers and dechlorinators and the supposed "evils" of them, then you'll have to fly alone on this one as well.

So, im guessing you dont spray any chemicals on your fields? You never get your well treated or what? They do come out and inspect your well right? Your not worried about contamination or do you feel good about the "natural filtration" that is happening when you get that rain water from the ground that you drink and stock your pond?

 

[crsublette]

So, im guessing you dont spray any chemicals on your fields? You never get your well treated or what? They do come out and inspect your well right? Your not worried about contamination or do you feel good about the "natural filtration" that is happening when you get that rain water from the ground that you drink and stock your pond?

We pull water from 500 feet below. There would have to be severe flooding, which has not happened in this semi-arid high plains area for hundreds of years, for any type of chemical leaching to reach the aquifer that deep. Yep, only residential wells get inspected upon installment and upon being pulled. We never had to treat our well water with any type of chemical at all. Yes, the lime and various rock layers in some aquifers do act as a natural filtration.

Other folk with well water have to filter it through various carbon filters (which are completely safe). Then, there are other folk that can not even use well water at all and must rely on rain, RO water, or city water. You will be adding a multiple of products to rain, RO water, and city water for various reasons. Chemically derived materials and organic materials added to rain and RO water to maintain the minerals and pH environment that is healthy for aquatic and there's absolutely nothing toxic about these products. If you do not do this, then rain and RO water can become much more toxic to aquatic life due to how it can cause a pH crash. pH crashes do naturally occur in areas with soft water and areas with soft water can not grow the highly eutrophic calcifying macroalgaes.

Best article I could find that explains it in its entirety... Do Fish Drink? Use of RO, Rain, Soft water. Osmoregulation in fish.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

We pull water from 500 feet below. There would have to be severe flooding, which has not happened in this semi-arid high plains area for hundreds of years, for any type of chemical leaching to reach the aquifer that deep. Yep, only residential wells get inspected upon installment and upon being pulled. We never had to treat our well water with any type of chemical at all. Yes, the lime and various rock layers in some aquifers do act as a natural filtration.

Other folk with well water have to filter it through various carbon filters (which are completely safe). Then, there are other folk that can not even use well water at all and must rely on rain, RO water, or city water. You will be adding a multiple of products to rain, RO water, and city water for various reasons. Chemically derived materials and organic materials added to rain and RO water to maintain the minerals and pH environment that is healthy for aquatic and there's absolutely nothing toxic about these products. If you do not do this, then rain and RO water can become much more toxic to aquatic life due to how it can cause a pH crash. pH crashes do naturally occur in areas with soft water and areas with soft water can not grow the highly eutrophic calcifying macroalgaes.

Best article I could find that explains it in its entirety... Do Fish Drink? Use of RO, Rain, Soft water. Osmoregulation in fish.

Awesome read. That was a very expensive well. They go for 10 a foot after 200

 

[crsublette]

Yes, filtration, saltwater has protien skimmers, that works for them

Why do you run a surface skimmer? That is what its for and to get leaves and debris before is settles

Correct, if there is going to be a higher organic load, then proper filtration and oxidizers must be used to capture and neutralize these dissolved organics or detritus fines. There are two approaches:

1) Surface skimmer. Mainly captures floating debris. To capture some of the dissolve organic foam, this type of skimmer's basket has to be religiously cleaned otherwise the captured foam dissolves back into the water.

2) "Protein" skimmers. These skimmers actively agitate the water to create the foam so they can capture the foam. Captured foam is automatically seperated and disposed out of the water into a container or on the ground. These can be built or purchased. In the context of ponds, these devices are called "Clarity" units and foam fractionators (also written as phoam phraxionators). The good quality retail Clarity units can be quite expensive. For DIY, there are many examples online on how to build "foam fractionators" or "phoam phraxionators" your self.

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Can you use protein skimmers on fresh water? Or would you have to much skimmate?

 

[crsublette]

Awesome read. That was a very expensive well. They go for 10 a foot after 200

It is very expensive. Dryland farming is nonexistant around here. With the drought, we are starting to drill down to 800 feet to capture water. Takes alot of fuel and energy to pump this water. Residential wells have to go down at least 470 feet. This is one major reason why farming in my area is definitely not going to make anyone rich. We do this for the love of agriculture.

 

[crsublette]

Can you use protein skimmers on fresh water? Or would you have to much skimmate?

Yep, "protein skimmers" as I described them have been used for a very long time. The humidity and temperature often affect the their effectiveness.

Two of my favorite threads on showing how to build them are...

Mr. Mucky Muck's phoam phraxionator

And...

how to make a phoam phraxionator, 1300-1500gph

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

It is very expensive. Dryland farming is nonexistant around here. With the drought, we are starting to drill down to 800 feet to capture water. Takes alot of fuel and energy to pump this water. Residential wells have to go down at least 470 feet. This is one major reason why farming in my area is definitely not going to make anyone rich. We do this for the love of agriculture.

We were very dry this year, running 700gpm yes per minute we take alot of water. We dropped fro 160 to 310 and alot of chlorine. Chlorine is all locked up now do to the meth heads stealing it

 

[mariobrothersleeve]

Yep, "protein skimmers" as I described them have been used for a very long time. The humidity and temperature often affect the their effectiveness.

Two of my favorite threads on showing how to build them are...

Mr. Mucky Muck's phoam phraxionator

And...

how to make a phoam phraxionator, 1300-1500gph

Holy crap! I never thought it would work.... I was wrong and i will be doing this to mine this summer! These skimmers are the backbone to saltwater people, and too i will use it for my pond.