Lessons learned from this winter's extreme cold

[callingcolleen1]

Who cares what the water temperature is anyway!! My ponds are just barely above freezing in the dead of winter, even with the one heater for all three ponds! and the top water is the same temperature as the bottom and my ponds run all winter. People are way to obsessed with keeping the pond warm thinking that the fish are tropical! The koi and goldfish are NOT tropical, they are COLD water fish, and cold water does not harm them, it is simply a myth, as my ponds have run for over 23 years, all winter long, and I am telling you the honest to God Truth!!!
I do however slow the flow of water down and shut all the spitters and extra summer pumps down, but the main pumps still continue to circulate the water in all three connecting ponds. The fish do prefer to winter in quite water and preferably under weeds too. I too prefer to winter under a warm blanket in my bed, but if I cover my head I may suffocate to death too!! But the running water keeps the water fresher and clean, so it is vital to give the fish fresh clean water free of built up gases. while providing a nice winter nest for fish under the weeds too.
The biggest thing that kills fish in winter is the build up of gases under the ice and snow, or if you freeze them solid in the ice! Your handy dandy test kits will NOT tell you if there was a gas bubble build up, cause by the time you suspect something is wrong, the gas may have escaped. Just like in the summer, if you fish pond is too crowed with fish and floating plants that smother the surface, that too can kill the fish in the wee hours of the morning, when oxygen is at it's lowest, that is why people find the fish dead in the morning!! A small hole in the ice does not allow all the gas to escape, some gas can still be trapped at the other end of pond. Only running water can effectively rid the pond of gas, bubblers do not always work, and I know MANY people who lost fish that way. I have another friend in town that runs her pond all winter too with a heater, and all her fish are just fine too.
People need to worry more about the quality of the water under the ice, than the cold water itself. Bubblers do not clean the water. I hate the bubblers cause I have seen too many people lose fish using them, and nobody listens to me, cause what do I know after 23 years of wintering fish! Sorry, getting grouchy. God I wish it would quit snowing already!!
The only lesson I have learned is to not hold your breath waiting for spring to come ......

 

[Fishylove]

My tiny lil girl never goes out without us. I did build the pond so if anything fell in it could get out.

Mines the same addy. Too much wildlife around here. Although they will make a considerable mess if it does happen.

 

[Fishylove]

On a second note..I am sooo glad I took the little wiggle butts out of the small pond and put them in with the big guys! That small pond had a foot of ice on it for most of this winter! They would have been little fish cubes

 

[Lisak1]

Who cares what the water temperature is anyway!! My ponds are just barely above freezing in the dead of winter, even with the one heater for all three ponds! and the top water is the same temperature as the bottom and my ponds run all winter. People are way to obsessed with keeping the pond warm thinking that the fish are tropical! The koi and goldfish are NOT tropical, they are COLD water fish, and cold water does not harm them, it is simply a myth, as my ponds have run for over 23 years, all winter long, and I am telling you the honest to God Truth!!!

I definitely believe you - I've seen your videos. Your pond is beautiful and your fish look fantastic, year round! Out of curiosity - why the heater? If the running water keeps the pond open (which I know it does, because the same is true in my pond) then why do you run a heater?

I would test my water temperature just to satisfy my own curiosity about just how cold it gets down there. I have a belief that the water temperature stays pretty stable - but that's just a guess.

 

[revchristinejday]

Over the course of the past two winters I have learned a number of things-I have constructed a sort of green house over my small pond (goldfish) made out of old windows:
First Year: Heaters fail, luckily I kept a filter running : I lost two goldfish. Plus I had sealed up the "green house" so securely that I couldn't get into without dismantling it!
Second Year: I bought a HF pump and it has run like a charm and kept the water running and a hole in the ice along with the filter. Unfortunately there are less bright fish who will hang out on the shallow ledge and get caught by a quick freeze--I lost one. Next year I will put the plants on the shelf so there is no room for fishes--stay deep and live. This year I did not seal up the "green house" and was able to lift a part of the roof to check things out, etc. Much better!

 

[callingcolleen1]

I definitely believe you - I've seen your videos. Your pond is beautiful and your fish look fantastic, year round! Out of curiosity - why the heater? If the running water keeps the pond open (which I know it does, because the same is true in my pond) then why do you run a heater?

I would test my water temperature just to satisfy my own curiosity about just how cold it gets down there. I have a belief that the water temperature stays pretty stable - but that's just a guess.

Thank you Lisa for the very nice complement. I use the heater when very very cold, like below minus 10 or 15 Celsius usually. When the temps get very cold (below minus 20) for a sustained period of time, the pond will freeze hard dispite the running water. Running water can only keep the ponds open to a certain degree of temperature, and this year we had lots of very very cold weather, like minus 40 below. This winter the bottom pond had a foot of ice, despite the heater and the flowing water. Then the degree to which your pond will freeze can vary. For example, if CE has outside ambient temperture of say 20 degrees Fahrenheit, she may only get less than an inch of ice or so at that temperture. But if I get an outside ambient temperture of the same degree, 20 Fahrenheit, I may get over a foot of ice! So how is that possible? The ground temperature factor comes in to play. If the ground is frozen very hard, say down below 3 or 4 feet, then your pond will generally freeze to that same depth, dispite the outside temperture. So if I get a warm day in the winter, I can still get twice as much ice as those down south, just because my ground is frozen so hard it freezes everything around much more quickly. If I did not use the heater, the ice would freeze very thick in my pond, which is only three feet deep, and that could be a big problem with very big koi.

Flowing water will help greatly to break the ice up once the temperatures warm up, and very quickly if you raise the water level to the level of the ice. Raising the water to the level of the ice, will allow the ice to melt very fast. A river in nature will break up and melt the ice much quicker than a lake.

It is also good that you test your water temperture just so you see how your pond works. Some ponds will hold their temperture better if they are a larger body of water, or if the pond is located in a protected sheltered area. Generally, the smaller the volume of water that your pond holds, the quicker it will cool off and freeze.

It is good to test the water quality as well. The test kits however are not always accurate. They will not always indicate a gas build up. Gases can still get trapped under the ice even with a hole open. If the gases rise on the other side of pond, they do not travel sideways to escape out the hole which could be some distance. Gases rise staight up and can still get trapped under the ice, dispite a small hole in the very big pond. Ammonia is a big problem as well in the winter for lots of people. Generally speaking, the higher the water PH, the greater risk you have of an ammonia bubble developing under the ice and killing off all the fish.

Running water will better help rid the pond of ammonia and other gases that may occur under the ice in my opinion. I will not lie, running your water all winter may be difficult for some people, depending on their pond. External filter generally may freeze up, because as the water flows from the small hose to the big box, it will lose water pressure inside the box, and that will allow the external filter box to freeze up in extreme tempertures. I would not run a waterfall, if I had a waterfall, I would devert the water in the winter to a level just above the ice. Water falls can also displace a greater amount of the pond water, as the water is turned into a massive block of ice due to the splashing of the waterfall. I would also not run a skimmer as they may pose a problem in some cases. If you have a massive pump for summer time, I would recommend you get a smaller size pump for winter. Generally speaking, the winter water flow should be cut in half of what it runs in the summer.

 

[addy1]

I would need to totally redo everything to run during the winter, going to get those little pond breathers, if mitch, our test bunny

, says they worked for him.

 

[j.w]

I guess we are fortunate here that any freezing of our pond surface only lasts for a few days. I did lose 5 little tiny fish so far this winter out of an estimate of maybe 40 or so fish in my pond. I do run my waterfall and prefilter and a spout of water coming up a few inches off the surface and a tiny air stone from an aquarium. That kept a hole by the falls and the spout and not so much where the tiny air stone was this year. This year was a bit colder longer than most years here. We can get away w/ just running everything the same tho as the temps are fairly mild here most of the time. This is the worst it got at my pond in the picture below and only lasted a few days:

 

[Lisak1]

" I would not run a waterfall, if I had a waterfall, I would devert the water in the winter to a level just above the ice. Water falls can also displace a greater amount of the pond water, as the water is turned into a massive block of ice due to the splashing of the waterfall."

This is actually one of the reasons I am curious about the water temperature at different levels. We did run our waterfall and were happy that the falls never froze. We had an ice cap over the falls for much of the winter, so we couldn't see it flowing, but we could hear it and see it coming over the other end. But I did wonder if we were causing the colder water to mix with the warmer water at the bottom of the pond. I also wonder how cold that water is - it's pumped from our underground rain exchange up through the bog and then over the falls, so it spends a good deal of time underground before it gets back to the pond. And that snow/ice cap covering probably helps to insulate it further. Suffice it to say I'm more than happy to wait many many months to conduct my cold water temperature testing!!

Thanks for the heater explanation - it's obviously working for you!

 

[callingcolleen1]

Well JW it still looks green to me! Love that you always have green everywhere!

This past winter has been very hard. I did find one small thin skinny looking goldfish in the bottom pond that died, I have noticed that the fish are looking a little leaner than usual as well. I am going to plug in the heater so they can warm up and start eating some algae so they fatten up a little. During the long cold winter some weaker fish may start to lose too much fat reserves and start looking lean. I like to feed them the puppy chow food in the summer because it fattens them up good for a long winter. In the bottom pond the smaller fish were fed small goldfish pellets cause there mouth is smaller. I think I should have fed them the puppy chow food more so they would be fatter going into winter like the other big koi that got lots of Puppy Chow, they still look good and fat. However I did rescue some koi that my vegan sister had, she must have put them on a vegan diet cause they are very VERY skinny! I will fatten them up this summer so they look better going into winter.

The trouble with having too much water movement during winter, is that the fish have to swim against the current more, and that will use more precious fat reserves to do that, that is one of the reasons the fish like to hide somewhere quiet, down under the weeds, and sleep off the winter that way. It is not that under the weeds is any warmer than the rest of my pond, as the top and bottom of my pond is about the same temperature. This is why I like to slow the flow down in winter. Trying to swim with a strong current during the winter can further weaken the fish as they use more energy to do that, when they need to conserve energy. This may be why some people also lose fish come early spring, if there water is thrashing and splashing too much during the winter months and fish cannot rest proper.

If only one or two small fish die off, it could also just be that they were too weak going into winter. The small goldfish that died in my bottom pond was a very skinny fish with a really long tail. Dragging that long tail around could have weakened him to. In the wild these types of goldfish would normally die off, as the long tail would be a big problem, they cannot swim as fast to escape predators , and dragging that big thing around uses more energy too. Comet style goldfish are much more hardy for sure.

 

[Dave 54]

Who cares what the water temperature is anyway!! My ponds are just barely above freezing in the dead of winter, even with the one heater for all three ponds! and the top water is the same temperature as the bottom and my ponds run all winter. People are way to obsessed with keeping the pond warm thinking that the fish are tropical! The koi and goldfish are NOT tropical, they are COLD water fish, and cold water does not harm them, it is simply a myth, as my ponds have run for over 23 years, all winter long, and I am telling you the honest to God Truth!!!
I do however slow the flow of water down and shut all the spitters and extra summer pumps down, but the main pumps still continue to circulate the water in all three connecting ponds. The fish do prefer to winter in quite water and preferably under weeds too. I too prefer to winter under a warm blanket in my bed, but if I cover my head I may suffocate to death too!! But the running water keeps the water fresher and clean, so it is vital to give the fish fresh clean water free of built up gases. while providing a nice winter nest for fish under the weeds too.
The biggest thing that kills fish in winter is the build up of gases under the ice and snow, or if you freeze them solid in the ice! Your handy dandy test kits will NOT tell you if there was a gas bubble build up, cause by the time you suspect something is wrong, the gas may have escaped. Just like in the summer, if you fish pond is too crowed with fish and floating plants that smother the surface, that too can kill the fish in the wee hours of the morning, when oxygen is at it's lowest, that is why people find the fish dead in the morning!! A small hole in the ice does not allow all the gas to escape, some gas can still be trapped at the other end of pond. Only running water can effectively rid the pond of gas, bubblers do not always work, and I know MANY people who lost fish that way. I have another friend in town that runs her pond all winter too with a heater, and all her fish are just fine too.
People need to worry more about the quality of the water under the ice, than the cold water itself. Bubblers do not clean the water. I hate the bubblers cause I have seen too many people lose fish using them, and nobody listens to me, cause what do I know after 23 years of wintering fish! Sorry, getting grouchy. God I wish it would quit snowing already!!
The only lesson I have learned is to not hold your breath waiting for spring to come ......

I think your wrong on that koi are not coldwater fish they are indeed from a country with a different climate from that of our respective countries you could infact call sub tropical
May I suggest youtake a visit to http//:www.themtherekoyas.com and take that up with Peter Waddington who would put you in the picture about koi pretty damn quick as would others on other koi websites .
Mine unlike yours are protected from the riggors of winter with insulation and policarbonate roofing, you know about my Canadian friend taking hers indoors because the cold was killing them.
When you see a koi's gills fried by the temperatures she has (as low as -54c ) with over 2ft of ice over the pond and a heater on 24/7 unable to keep up with the cold, many koi do not even see cold weather where they are bred Israel. Malaysia, Indonesia and other Far Eastern countries
Japanese winters are Cold and quick they do not last as long as our winters but the breeders make sure all koi are at least indoors so your wrong on your statement , even you heat one pond from what I've read .
So perhaps its time to do a little reading and see what the general concensus is before making a mistake one day that may just cost your koi their lives one winter .....


Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Here we have advice for over wintering koi :-

http://www.rmkc.net/articles/Winterizing_Your_Pond.pdf

Written for the Rocky mountain koi club who are affiliated to the AKCA nothing to do with us brits yet its strange we use the same advice both sides of the Atlantic

Dave

 

[callingcolleen1]

There are two types of fish, cold water and tropical. Koi are not tropical, they are cold water, and they are able to survive extreme cold if water is fresh and clean. No such thing as tropical Koi!

 

[callingcolleen1]

The gills do not get fried from breathing ice cold air in the water, or mine would have been dead 23 years ago. The gills on your friends koi were fried due to sucking in too much bad gases under the ice, period.

 

[callingcolleen1]

we have had temperatures before close to minus 50 too. in previous years, and my old koi have no burnt gills. Look it up, burnt gills are caused by fish running out of oxygen and sucking in bad gas.