Mike Whites Under Gravel Suction Filter

[leslybgood]

I’ve been creeping your forums and scouring the internet trying to find an answer to this question. The Pond Digger and Mike White’s article on PondTrade magazine has me obsessed with installing a UGSF in my quarantine/smaller pond. (I’m redoing the pond.) If the filter works as well as they say, I might add one to my main pond. When complete, it will be about 3,000 gallons with submersible pump/gravel filter sending the water to a bog filter.

I’d like to reuse what I have for the smaller pond, i.e., my 5000 gph submersible filter. However, I‘m confused on how to plumb the manifold to the submersible pump vs. an external pump (what they use). This is how Mike answered some of the questions similar to mine:

You could connect the suction grid piping directly to the intake of a submersible pump. But that is asking for problems. You will probably get something bigger then the pump can handle entering the pump. You might be able to pipe a leaf basket used on external pumps to catch anything before the pump. What I usually do is use a pump vault that I can seal. I put the pump in that and then pipe the grid to dump into the vault. The output of the pump is then piped thru the vault to where I want the output to go. When the pump is turned on then the only water the pump can pump is water that is getting into the vault from the grid. The only real problem with using a submersible pump is when they have to be changed. It can be difficult to remove and replace the pump underwater. I have one pond that I installed 10 years ago using this system that is functioning perfectly.

Perhaps I ordered the wrong vault? Since I am not using the vault for it’s intended use (pondless waterfall) I ordered the smallest I could find. It came today but only has one hole for outgoing water…? So, I’m guessing the important words in his answer ^^ is “a pump vault that I can seal.”

I have no idea what that means and cannot find any photos/diagrams on how to set it up with a submersible pump. I posted my question on Mike’s article but it didn’t post (perhaps an approval process). Help! TIA

 

[combatwombat]

Welcome. I really like this filter, too. I installed one in my pond, but went with sand and made it a pressure filter instead of suction. Don’t ask me how it works—I haven’t turned it on yet!

I would first take a look at your pump. Take a picture of it and share it here. Lots of submersible pumps have a debris cage around them, but if you remove it, you’ll find a threaded fitting for direct suction. If you have that, then you can connect directly to your grid. Problem solved.

If not, then you’ll need some type of vault for the pump to live in that has no openings so that you can connect the piping from the grid directly to the vault with a bulkhead so that your pump will only draw water from the grid.

The vault you have is designed to allow water to infiltrate from all over, which is the opposite of what you want.

It might still work, but not without modification. You would need to plug all the infiltration holes/slots. You could glue some spare liner over the holes/slots. That would do the trick. Or use some 4” waterproof patch tape from Gorilla or Flex Seal. That would probably also work.

Look forward to seeing your build.

 

[leslybgood]

Thanks for replying, Combat. Yes, my filter has a threaded inlet. In his article, however, he said it attaching directly to the inlet was asking for problems (large debris getting through could ruin the pump). To alleviate that situation, he said to put the pump inside a “sealed pond vault.“ That‘s the part that has me scratching my head.

 

[combatwombat]

Thanks for replying, Combat. Yes, my filter has a threaded inlet. In his article, however, he said it attaching directly to the inlet was asking for problems (large debris getting through could ruin the pump). To alleviate that situation, he said to put the pump inside a “sealed pond vault.“ That‘s the part that has me scratching my head.

You could put a strainer basket on it like an external. Kinda hard to service, though.

 

[Lisak1]

I think the whole set up sounds like it would be a bear to deal with down the road. I don't really understand his instructions either... just the whole idea of a submersible pump inside a pump vault in a pond sounds challenging!

 

[combatwombat]

just the whole idea of a submersible pump inside a pump vault in a pond sounds challenging!

Isn’t that how most ponds are set up?

 

[Jhn]

I wouldnt feed the bog with your suction grid, not without some sort of settling chamber between the output from the pump to the input of the bog. Reason being you are pulling water from the pond bottom where everything silt/debris wise is going to settle. Sending water with silt and mulm to your bog is in all likelihood asking to clog the bog up quickly. Most bogs are fEd with water free from mulm, silt, etc., or at least as silt free as possible.

Also, when the say seal the vault, as C.w, said you will need to add bulkheads to the vault and seal any portion of the vault, that water can get through, that is underwater It will probably include drilling another hole in the vault, installing a bulkhead as the input will also be coming in through a pipe. Using some type of flexible caulk with liner or whatever to close these leak points is your best bet, as you will be sealing together two different materials. You could stick a piece of liner on the inside of the vault against the normal slotted intake of the vault then caulk the slots, as the liner would keep the caulk from drooping through.

 

[leslybgood]

I wouldnt feed the bog with your suction grid, not without some sort of settling chamber between the output from the pump to the input of the bog. Reason being you are pulling water from the pond bottom where everything silt/debris wise is going to settle. Sending water with silt and mulm to your bog is in all likelihood asking to clog the bog up quickly. Most bogs are fEd with water free from mulm, silt, etc., or at least as silt free as possible.

I will have a clean out pipe and bottom drain on the bog. I set up my large pond/bog that way and it’s pretty easy to clean out. In his article and comments, Mike White says he set up his 25-yr-old pond with a submersible pump going to his bog. The claim is the gravel has not been cleaned in 25 years and there is no buildup whatsoever in the gravel.

 

[leslybgood]

You could put a strainer basket on it like an external. Kinda hard to service, though.

He does mention using a leaf basket before the pump—I took a look at one of those and it does make more sense vs. a vault. You’re right, though, cleaning that out will be a p.i.t.a.!

 

[j.w]

@leslybgood

 

[Jhn]

I will have a clean out pipe and bottom drain on the bog. I set up my large pond/bog that way and it’s pretty easy to clean out. In his article and comments, Mike White says he set up his 25-yr-old pond with a submersible pump going to his bog. The claim is the gravel has not been cleaned in 25 years and there is no buildup whatsoever in the gravel.

Understood, but every pond is different. Also, There is a difference from a submersible pump feeding a bog and a suction grid feeding a bog. A submersible pump can be in a skimmer, in a intake bay, a vault in a negative edge. Just saying wouldn’t feed a bog with the intake pulling from the pond bottom, imo that is asking for problems.

 

[combatwombat]

He does mention using a leaf basket before the pump—I took a look at one of those and it does make more sense vs. a vault. You’re right, though, cleaning that out will be a p.i.t.a.!

No problem cleaning a leaf basket on an external pump. Pain to do it when submerged.

 

[Lisak1]

Isn’t that how most ponds are set up?

Well, minus the inside the pond thing... or at least that's how I envision what he was describing. Maybe I'm being dense... wouldn't be the first time!

 

[steelesland]

I think the whole set up sounds like it would be a bear to deal with down the road. I don't really understand his instructions either... just the whole idea of a submersible pump inside a pump vault in a pond sounds challenging!

I have made a YouTube video on installing a airlift system