New Stock Tank Pond


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Trex decking pieces, azek, or any composite decking . epdm will work but i think it will trap moisture more the the other two
 
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I would also look at brining your zinc tub to a linex dealer. where they will spray the liner inside your tub it's it incredibly durable stuff and i extremely doubt it is harmful to fish . this will give you a very neat clean coating over all the ribs and detail in the tub. the linex is not smooth it does have texture and should be fantastic for nitrifying bacteria to grow on. they also sell similar products for truck beds at even places like adap or such hook up a air compressor they give you a cheap gun and spray it on but i would caulk the joints before you spray
 
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liner would surely work; maybe look for some HDRPE as it's sturdier/reinforced than EPDM. You could also put it in a bed of sand but you may have to create a box to help contain it.
Thanks for the tip.. I ordered an HDRPE liner from epay, should be here Wed. I still have to wait for the concrete to cure for 2 more weeks, before I even think about water….

Rich…
 
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Your concrete is fine to work on you just don't want to load it for a week what psi did you use
 
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Your concrete is fine to work on you just don't want to load it for a week what psi did you use
It’s a 3000 psi mix, but it should cure ~28 days before I add 5000 lbs of water to it.
the liner / pad will be here wednesday, so some time thursday, I may add some water to keep it in place while I figure out the wall around it. This is a whole project, not just a pond, so, some trees were delivered today, and I’ll be planting those for a few days.. Still deciding on filter/pump combo…

Thanks, Rich…
 
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Yes concrete cures in 28 days but for a slab you don't have anywhere near the weights to jeopardize the concrete. With a 3000 psi mix we stand a 40,000 pound mono pole in 7 days that is 80 feet tall minimum . then at 28 days we are pulling in miles of wire that weighs 9 pounds a foot. your pressures are negligible. As long as you kept it wet for 3 days your good
 
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Well, it looks like a bog filter is do-able, but I can only comfortably fit a 2W x 3L x 2D tank.
That seems small proportionately. Can it be expected function adequately ? I’m moving forward with it, and should have the bog tank tomorrow. Some bog is better than none.. Right ? The pond is about 700gal, and there will propably only be about 15 goldfish, 10 of which are currently living in a 70-75 gal stock tank. Not sure how big a gold fish can get, they’re holding at about 5 inches now. My point is, the fish load should not be that heavy.

What is the best bog design ? Plants are a must, so I need to know what are my best choice?

Rich…
 

brokensword

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Well, it looks like a bog filter is do-able, but I can only comfortably fit a 2W x 3L x 2D tank.
That seems small proportionately. Can it be expected function adequately ? I’m moving forward with it, and should have the bog tank tomorrow. Some bog is better than none.. Right ? The pond is about 700gal, and there will propably only be about 15 goldfish, 10 of which are currently living in a 70-75 gal stock tank. Not sure how big a gold fish can get, they’re holding at about 5 inches now. My point is, the fish load should not be that heavy.

What is the best bog design ? Plants are a must, so I need to know what are my best choice?

Rich…
Yes, any bog (filtration) is better than nothing. Make it as deep as you can to maximize what you DO have. Good plants are those that grow aggressively as they'll pull the nitrates out faster but be aware it also means you'll be thinning more often. Still, shallow roots, so easy yanking. Realize, a bog is mainly for bio filtration, not for plants. They do their job, but you can do the same with floaters. A bog is for good bacteria colonization. We're it my pond, I'd put in a thin layer of pea gravel on the pond bottom just to increase surface area for the bacteria. This way, you're augmenting your bog filter.

Plants to use in the bog; water cress, creeping Jenny, parrots feather, water mint, water clover, monkey flower, arrow plant, among others. Iris are pretty good filters but you have to keep an eye on it and it's not as easy to thin (divide).

Floaters to use; water hyacinth and water lettuce as they have great, aggressive roots. Aim for 60% coverage and composite if you exceed that in time.
 
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Well, things are progressing slowly. Started the lattice patio cover, and that’s sucking up all my time for now. Boy, I didn’t realize how much a 25ft timber weighs ! I’ve done some investigating and I’ve decided to use a liner in the stock tank, just to be sure. The subject is pretty polarized and runs from either “the zinc is completely harmless in low levels“ to “it will kill your fish in weeks”.
Better safe then sorry, I suppose…. As the outside and the top edge will be covered, my plan is the install the liner, fill the pond with water, fold the liner nicely over the edge, and use a 25 ft nylon ratcheting strap to secure it..

127DB39A-62A0-428D-A600-08D38984A38C.jpeg972ED3E2-4B12-446D-A9D2-0334202CB899.jpeg

I bought a firestone 45 mil rubber liner that should arrive soon (amazon, probably tomorrow). Because it’s only intended to be a barrier from the zinc, I could have gone thinner, but I never want to do this again…. This brings me to more questions. First, the drain will no longer be available, should that concern me ? I had planned to push water though that opening with a submersible pump, forcing the water thru a filter, then return to the pond by means of a waterfall. In that way, I would have no plumbing hanging over the wall. Now, issue two, I’m not sure the best intake method Will be. I’m assuming , a pre filter, followed by the pump, connected via plumbing to a filter (over the wall, behind the pond), plumbed back to pond via the waterfall. You can see in the pic, there will someday be a small bog filter, and that plumbing will puzzle me even more, because, I’d like the ability to switch, or “mix” the filtering methods. What would that plumbing look like ? I get so many hits when I search here, but haven’t seen quite what I think I need, maybe it’s my search terms…. Some guidance is certainly welcome !

Rich…
 
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Your best bet in a drain i take it is at the bottom of your galvanized container. Just because yor putting in a liner does not mean you have to eliminate the drain. i assume you were going to use a bulked fitting to make that water proof. well that hasn't changed because you got a liner just the type of bulked will change. Where your set up is so in the open i would lean to interrogating a bog onto your design. It is by FAR the most attractive filter you can use. And is definitely underrated. Ok i see now you already have the bog set up with a second galvanized tub . but from what i can see is you need to have at least 6 inches of side wall from the water height in the bog to the spill way. as you have it now it won't allow for to much of a drop. but no one ever said f=waterfalls need to drop 4 feet . as the higher they get the harder it is to control the splash.
If i was spending the kinda time and design your doing i would have lined the galvanized with fabric sp when condensation starts if the galvy starts to get rough the liner will be protected. i would then learn how to seam and i would make that pond wrinkle free but that is me i have had a lot of experience in doing so. You appear to be in a very hot area rubbers enemy is UV rays underwater is not as bad but exposed rubber can fail in as little as 8 years remove the uv rays and rubber can last indefinitely.
There are other materials where they can make a welded bond with is better then a epdm bond.

The key to a bog is to pump the water to the bottom of the bog but you will need to have something to break the vacuum if the power goes out so that your bog and pond don't level out a vacuum breaker available at depot lowes made of pvc for 20 bucks is all you need or even drilling a hole in the top of the pipe but facing down tot he spray of water doesn't go everywhere of gets clogged.
 
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Your best bet in a drain i take it is at the bottom of your galvanized container. Just because yor putting in a liner does not mean you have to eliminate the drain. i assume you were going to use a bulked fitting to make that water proof. well that hasn't changed because you got a liner just the type of bulked will change. Where your set up is so in the open i would lean to interrogating a bog onto your design. It is by FAR the most attractive filter you can use. And is definitely underrated. Ok i see now you already have the bog set up with a second galvanized tub . but from what i can see is you need to have at least 6 inches of side wall from the water height in the bog to the spill way. as you have it now it won't allow for to much of a drop. but no one ever said f=waterfalls need to drop 4 feet . as the higher they get the harder it is to control the splash.
If i was spending the kinda time and design your doing i would have lined the galvanized with fabric sp when condensation starts if the galvy starts to get rough the liner will be protected. i would then learn how to seam and i would make that pond wrinkle free but that is me i have had a lot of experience in doing so. You appear to be in a very hot area rubbers enemy is UV rays underwater is not as bad but exposed rubber can fail in as little as 8 years remove the uv rays and rubber can last indefinitely.
There are other materials where they can make a welded bond with is better then a epdm bond.

The key to a bog is to pump the water to the bottom of the bog but you will need to have something to break the vacuum if the power goes out so that your bog and pond don't level out a vacuum breaker available at depot lowes made of pvc for 20 bucks is all you need or even drilling a hole in the top of the pipe but facing down tot he spray of water doesn't go everywhere of gets clogged.
Thanks for the info.. The tank has a 1” threaded fitting on one side, near the bottom. I was going to attach directly to it, however after saying that out loud , the fitting is probably too small to begin with. So, it’s over the side.. I really don’t want to cut holes in the tank/liner. The bog tank is just mocked up right now, the blocks are just sitting in dirt, it will rise about 6 inches, and of course be level, once the footing goes in. Still considering a decorative wall about 4 ft tall between the bog and the pond, maybe brick or stacked stone.
I looked at custom one piece liners for $600+, but I found very little on seaming your own. I actually thought of that after seeing custom sized liners. The idea seamed doable but I couldn’t find enough specific instructions / results to invest money in materials.
It does get hot here, hotter the last 3 years than ever. In the july and august months we‘ve been seeing 105 -110 degrees in the day and only dropping to 68-72 at night. Not every day, but about 40% of the time. I sure hope the sun’s radiant heat isn’t too much.. The area will be about 50% shade in the peak of the day ( 2” lattice / 2” space ) So the UV may still be an issue at the area above the waterline, but somewhat reduced at least. I could create a denser shade, but the plants would suffer, and I think plants are a must. (Even considered grow light above the pond). It may be possible to drape a scrap piece of liner all around the hard top edge to shield the real liner.

Thanks Again,
Rich…
 
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You can certainly do that cover the liner at the top with a second piece of sacrificial liner that is exposed to the sun when that fails you can replace it or cover it up with another. I would caution making the drop to high as its becomes very hard to control splash in such a small pond
You can always run the plumbing in the liner and find many ways to hide the plumbing.
 

brokensword

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Thanks for the info.. The tank has a 1” threaded fitting on one side, near the bottom. I was going to attach directly to it, however after saying that out loud , the fitting is probably too small to begin with. So, it’s over the side.. I really don’t want to cut holes in the tank/liner. The bog tank is just mocked up right now, the blocks are just sitting in dirt, it will rise about 6 inches, and of course be level, once the footing goes in. Still considering a decorative wall about 4 ft tall between the bog and the pond, maybe brick or stacked stone.
I looked at custom one piece liners for $600+, but I found very little on seaming your own. I actually thought of that after seeing custom sized liners. The idea seamed doable but I couldn’t find enough specific instructions / results to invest money in materials.
It does get hot here, hotter the last 3 years than ever. In the july and august months we‘ve been seeing 105 -110 degrees in the day and only dropping to 68-72 at night. Not every day, but about 40% of the time. I sure hope the sun’s radiant heat isn’t too much.. The area will be about 50% shade in the peak of the day ( 2” lattice / 2” space ) So the UV may still be an issue at the area above the waterline, but somewhat reduced at least. I could create a denser shade, but the plants would suffer, and I think plants are a must. (Even considered grow light above the pond). It may be possible to drape a scrap piece of liner all around the hard top edge to shield the real liner.

Thanks Again,
Rich…
okay, I may be a bit confused, so straighten me out if I am.

You're trying to use the secondary, smaller tub for a bog. You want to take water from the pond (larger tub) and send it to the smaller, then have it overflow back, correct?

So to do all that, this is what I'd do; line each and make sure the bog tub is at least 6" higher than the pond tub. Make the bog liner long enough to drop 12" into the pond tub. Make sure the pond tub liner is 12" higher on the bog side and it can fold OVER the bog tub and UNDER the bog liner. This last is optional as you CAN just drop the bog water down into the pond tub but the above is more secure re keeping water inside the system. I hope that's clear. What this does is prevent wicking.

Make sure your bog tub liner is 6" higher than the bog water level as with time and clogging, the water level is going to rise and you don't want it to overflow your bog on the wrong side. You're going to need to alter the bog tub to create a weir (your waterfall) and it's here you can make this weir the 6" needed. Think of it like this; you cut a part of your bog tub out and the water rises then pours at this level, leaving your bog water level 6" lower than the remaining sides. Btw, your bog liner (and pond liner coming up if you go this route) is routed up and over and through this new weir cutout.

Now as for the plumbing; I like to keep all the plumbing inside my liners so if there's a leak, no water can escape the pond/bog system. The basic plan is to have a pump a bit off your pond bottom, send water via flex pvc up and over the bog wall (I'd put it in the cutout you created for your weir and NOT over the side, though that can be done. Putting it in the weir channel keeps all the water inside your system, should you develope a leak. This tubing then goes to the bottom of your bog tub to a manifold made from pvc or other pipe (I used 4" corrugated drain pipe), which has slits cut 1/3 the way through. The manifold lays on the bog tub bottom. Over this, you put some pea gravel. There's other more complex ways but this is the easiest; search for 'bog' here and you can see your other options.

The water will be forced to rise up through the gravel and since your weir cutout is lower, the water exits that way, over the edge, down the bog liner, and back into your pond. That's the basic idea. To hide this liner, you can get some Rock On A Roll or plan some other facia. Doing so means you'd have to construct a support for anything heavy you want in front of your bog liner to hide it.

It's simpler than it seems, you just need to figure out how to cover making the esthetics to your taste. You don't need the drain, imo, and can ignore it. You can also ignore the ratchet strap as the water will keep your liner in place, esp if you're planning on covering the top with any kind of heavy stone decor.
 
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a Stainless steel lumber wrap would work to secure the liner and would look much better.
The cut out weir i would only cut the vertical cuts and bend the rest downward creating your sleuth. And like @brokensword said this is a tricky spot and much though needs to be used as to how to control the water as well as how to protect the liner from being cut buy the tub
 
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You can certainly do that cover the liner at the top with a second piece of sacrificial liner that is exposed to the sun when that fails you can replace it or cover it up with another. I would caution making the drop to high as its becomes very hard to control splash in such a small pond
You can always run the plumbing in the liner and find many ways to hide the plumbing.
I want some waterfall noise, even if it’s just a portion of the day. I know for a fact when the water is more active, the fish are more active. In my tiny pond, they gravitate to the splashing water IMHO, I think they get a little charge from the direct point of aeration. I don’t want a 3 ft waterfall, but 18”-20” might suffice. Something kinda “splashy”, not a sheet of glass flowing into to still water pond…. make some splash. I’ll have to try and make the splash a bit directional though, lol…so it doesn’t blow over the back side of the pond.

Rich…
 
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okay, I may be a bit confused, so straighten me out if I am.

You're trying to use the secondary, smaller tub for a bog. You want to take water from the pond (larger tub) and send it to the smaller, then have it overflow back, correct?

So to do all that, this is what I'd do; line each and make sure the bog tub is at least 6" higher than the pond tub. Make the bog liner long enough to drop 12" into the pond tub. Make sure the pond tub liner is 12" higher on the bog side and it can fold OVER the bog tub and UNDER the bog liner. This last is optional as you CAN just drop the bog water down into the pond tub but the above is more secure re keeping water inside the system. I hope that's clear. What this does is prevent wicking.

Make sure your bog tub liner is 6" higher than the bog water level as with time and clogging, the water level is going to rise and you don't want it to overflow your bog on the wrong side. You're going to need to alter the bog tub to create a weir (your waterfall) and it's here you can make this weir the 6" needed. Think of it like this; you cut a part of your bog tub out and the water rises then pours at this level, leaving your bog water level 6" lower than the remaining sides. Btw, your bog liner (and pond liner coming up if you go this route) is routed up and over and through this new weir cutout.

Now as for the plumbing; I like to keep all the plumbing inside my liners so if there's a leak, no water can escape the pond/bog system. The basic plan is to have a pump a bit off your pond bottom, send water via flex pvc up and over the bog wall (I'd put it in the cutout you created for your weir and NOT over the side, though that can be done. Putting it in the weir channel keeps all the water inside your system, should you develope a leak. This tubing then goes to the bottom of your bog tub to a manifold made from pvc or other pipe (I used 4" corrugated drain pipe), which has slits cut 1/3 the way through. The manifold lays on the bog tub bottom. Over this, you put some pea gravel. There's other more complex ways but this is the easiest; search for 'bog' here and you can see your other options.

The water will be forced to rise up through the gravel and since your weir cutout is lower, the water exits that way, over the edge, down the bog liner, and back into your pond. That's the basic idea. To hide this liner, you can get some Rock On A Roll or plan some other facia. Doing so means you'd have to construct a support for anything heavy you want in front of your bog liner to hide it.

It's simpler than it seems, you just need to figure out how to cover making the esthetics to your taste. You don't need the drain, imo, and can ignore it. You can also ignore the ratchet strap as the water will keep your liner in place, esp if you're planning on covering the top with any kind of heavy stone decor.
Thank You…. The smaller tank will be the bog, and my plan was to hole saw two holes several inches down from the lip, and attach PVC pipes to provide the water return to the pond. (Maybe 2” pipe x2). I also planned to pierce the bog tank the same way to provide the bog input, at the opposite end.. That brings to mind, what is the optimal pipe diameter? Is 2” adequate ? The 8 ft tank is about 700 gallons, I believe I need to circulate at least twice that amount every hour, will it hurt to run more water through the system ? That’s going to determine what pump I’ll need to buy.. Does the bog create alot of back pressure, and would that need more pump capacity to overcome ? How do I tell a real pump, from a cheap import that likely will fail ? They all tout specs, and they all look pretty, but who really delivers ? Because of my waterfall obsession, could I simply run a second pump, just to provide waterfall, and circulation ?
So many questions, but I’m gettin closer !

Rich…
 
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brokensword

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Thank You…. The smaller tank will be the bog, and my plan was to hole saw two holes several inches down from the lip, and attach PVC pipes to provide the water return to the pond. (Maybe 2” pipe x2). I also planned to pierce the bog tank the same way to provide the bog input, at the opposite end.. That brings to mind, what is the optimal pipe diameter? Is 2” adequate ? The 8 ft tank is about 700 gallons, I believe I need to circulate at least twice that amount every hour, will it hurt to run more water through the system ? That’s going to determine what pump I’ll need to buy.. Does the bog create alot of back pressure, and would that need more pump capacity to overcome ? How do I tell a real pump, from a cheap import that likely will fail ? They all tout specs, and they all look pretty, but who really delivers ? Because of my waterfall obsession, could I simply run a second pump, just to provide waterfall, and circulation ?
So many questions, but I’m gettin closer !

Rich…
if you go the hole route, mind that you should use bulkhead fittings to handle possible leaks.

1-1/2" is more typical.

I'd get a 2000gph pump and put a wye on it which gives you 2 feeds. Put ball valves on each, take one lead to your bog inlet, the other can go wherever you want.

Your bog out flow will vary depending on bog depth (stone), amount of plants+growth, amountof clogging that will vary with bioload, and amount of water sent in. Hence, the ball valve on each lead so you can change per your vision.

If going with pipe outlets, make sure you have TWICE the volume out as you have coming in. As in (1) 1-1/2" in and (1) 3" pipe out. Or (2) 1-1/2" .

Yes, you can do this too using 2 pumps instead of one and it's better for redundancy. I'd still have a ball valve and wye on the bog pump.

A lot like Lagina pumps; I use Danner, one of which is going on 10 years.
 
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Just a quickie question…. Is ABS pipe OK ? It’s black to begin with, and would blend in to the black liner better.. I suppose some fittings may not be available.. ball valves maybe…

thanks…
 

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Just a quickie question…. Is ABS pipe OK ? It’s black to begin with, and would blend in to the black liner better.. I suppose some fittings may not be available.. ball valves maybe…

thanks…
haven't used it; check specs for winter+bury-ability. Seems like it should be okay.
 
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Thanks for the response,
I was avoiding the liner path as much as possible, because the overall look, the inevitable failure, and the dark color. I’m leaning towards epoxy coating, but the prep and cost are making me keep looking for another solution. With the epoxy, I can select an attractive color at least. (Not flaming red or anything, just a medium blue) I’m looking at stacked stone around the outside, with about 1-2 inches of spray insulation between the tank and the stone.

Rich…
my oase pe 750 preformed pond 750 letres dont know how many fish and what kind of fish to put inwas thinking orfes goldfish maybe a ghoast koi
 

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