New strain of algae?

[milocat2012]

I'm not new to ponds, had different ponds for over 10 years, but it's just something happening this spring that i didn't experience before. first i'll write a little about my pond: location: north NJ, pond size: Approximately 2800 gallons, filtration: Ultima2 6000 bio filter with 1/2 HP artesian pump, additional filtration 4 waterfall boxes with bio media and mechanical filtration in them, UV lights: 2 lights: Aqua 57 watt, and additional 25 watt. SaIt level was 0.15. and i just razed it to 0.2. PH between 8.2 and 8.5. I restarted my filters in the first week of March. and ever since i started to feed my fish the ammonia problem became unmanageable. As we're having unusually cold, spring my filters just couldn't catch up: as usually it takes 4-6 weeks for biological filters to mature, it's definitely had been past this time, but still problems. the only reason i could've think off is the temperatures were staying much colder then usual, and as we had some warmer days, that the pond temp came up close to 70 F, but then temperatures drastically dropped, so the pond water came down even below 60 F, lately water temps has been pretty consistently somewhere around 60 F. My thoughts are that in colder temps the bio filters probably take much longer to mature? So for the past month as all my efforts to bring the ammonia down: water changes, adding lots of beneficial bacteria to the pond as well as directly to all the filters was unsuccessful, i had to refer to consistently adding Ammo-Lock and other ammonia removing products to protect the fish. But starting last week i faced other problem: the water in the pond started to turn green and getting worse every day. I checked both of my UV lights they looked fine: the 57 W bulb was only used for 6 months prior to now, so it's relatively new. the other one 25 W i replaced couple days ago with a new bulb. I ordered the new bulb for 57W light, now waiting till i receive it. But i always though that the bulb should efficiently last more then 6 months of use. Meanwhile waiting for the other bulb to arrive, i tried 2 different algaecides: added the Algae Fix a few days ago, it didn't do anything, no improvement at all, then i added granular algaecide: Green Clean that i've been successfully using for past seasons to kill and control string algae on all my waterfalls, but unfortunately it didn't do anything for pea soup water. I'm wondering if it's some kind of new strain of algae that impossible to control? Maybe anybody had similar problem? My UV lights always were able to control green water, even when i had two 25 watts lights, then last summer i replaced one of the 25W with 57W and never had any problems. and it hasn't been hot weather yet. Could the addition of ammonia removing products has been causing the algae to grow?
I included a few pictures to show how bad the water got so i can barely see my fish unless they come to the top, and a picture of the pond. If anybody knows the best solution to clear up the water, please help.

 

[sissy]

Geeze I live in VA now (from nJ) and no uv and only use quilt batting to pick up the fine stuff .Sounds like with all that filtering and uv 's your water should be crystal clear .I don't use any chemicals at all to me they are a waste ,I feed my fish 3 or 4 times a week at most and pond is 9 years old and my koi are over 2 feet long .All i use is quilt batting soaked in peroxide and it is real dirty now because I am rebuilding my water fall
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[sissy]

To many chemicals could kill your fish and be causing even more problems .They are fighting each other and making the quality of the water worse .Koi like green water but we don't .Have you tested your water .

 

[sissy]

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:53605]My water even with the mess i have been making
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:52818] sorry this one is from last year

 

[milocat2012]

I don't usually use chemicals either, only use of beneficial bacteria and that's why it's a puzzle to me, because all the filtration and UVs i ALWAYS had crystal clear water! till now. now sure what causes for that algae to grow, it's just blows my mind!

 

[sissy]

The fish are spawning could be a good reason ,that and frogs doing there thing stirred up stuff .Koi like to root

 

[milocat2012]

i tested the water it's still shows ammonia presence. But now i'm not sure if it's a true readings, as the ammonia removing products can throw test result off. they saying to use Salicylate based ammonia test, which i think i use. this is the one i'm using: http://www.aquariumguys.com/ammonia...6_a_7c199677&gclid=CLO_k-Hm8rYCFQYw4Aod-WgA5A but i'm not sure if it's a true readings. I had to use the ammo lock, if i didn't all my fish probably would've been either dead or sick with ammonia poisoning. hopefully the bio filter will kick in soon.

 

[sissy]

You need a test kit that tests all and every thing I use api too .All the mix of chemicals could cause fish death and if they are spawning you could be looking at more problems .All that stuff could be throwing your test kit off that is way to many things and you may need to add fresh water to cut all that stuff
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[crsublette]

Not for sure on the UV sizing to pump flow, if this is appropriately matched. Others might chime in on this, I would have to look it up, but, if ya never had problems in the past, then I don't know if your UV would be the problem.

Your algae likely is the saving grace for your fish. If the algae was not there, then the ammonia levels would likely be tremendously higher. Algae are prehistoric plants with their sole purpose to be a water filter. This is how observing algae growth can give ya a sign of potential problems; if the algae growth becomes quite rampant, then this means your bio-filter is failing you or something else very wrong is happening.

Only two major problems, that I am aware of, created by chemicals. One problem is they increase your water's surface area retention making it easier for the water to create bubbles. Second problem, retail algaecides (that are not marketed as oxidizers) are actually non-selective microbicides, which will also attack the bacteria in your bio-filter.

Also, an increase salinity will cause your fish to produce more ammonia. I would significally reduce feeding to once a week or completely stop feeding all together until your bio-filters stabilize and reduce the ammonia.

It's odd that you have algae present in water with a .2% salinity concentration, but I am not convinced that salinity solves algae problems.

As far as I am aware, salicylate based ammonia test kits, that use with multiple regeants, will not register a false ammonia positive with Ammo-Lock. It is the Nessler based test kits that are most likely to register a false positive. If you want to be absolutely sure, then you need a test kit that individually tests for ammonia (NH3) and ammonium (NH4+). Seachem MultiTest ammonia test kit will test for free (NH3) ammonia. Most ammonia test kits only test for total ammonia, which is both free ammonia (NH3) and ionized ammonium (NH4+), and, from what I understand, the ammonia binder chemicals simply convert the ammonia to ammonium (NH4+). However, eventually, bacteria will breakdown this chemical binding causing some of the ammonium to convert back to ammonia; this is why you have to continually use the ammonia binder chemical until your water temperature warms up to above 65*F.

One purpose of zeolite is to absorb ammonia like a sponge; due to zeolite being negatively charged, the ammonia ions will instantly be attacted to it. You can build your self a water filter, that is filled up with zeolite, or simply get a fine netted bag filled with zeolite and put it in an area where there is moving water over it. Then, every 3 days or so change out the zeolite with some fresh zeolite and recharge the old zeolite. Recharging the zeolite causes the zeolite to release the ammonia and give zeolite its negative charge. To recharge it, simply stir and soak the zeolite in some warm, salty water for 12 hours or so.

If you trust your source water is clean enough or if you have a good inline chlorine or chloramine filter and can afford the water cost, then I would significantly reduce the use of chemicals and do 30~50% daily water changes for a few days until the ammonia reaches zero.

Honestly, ya might not want to hear this, but I think your bio-filter is failing you for two reasons. One, your multiple bio-filters are contaminated and not efficiently operating. Two, your mutiple bio-filters are inadvertently sterilized. I would double check to make sure there is absolutely zero gunk built up inside them.

 

[Ruben Miranda]

Hello
Check to see how high your Nitrates are.
If you are using chem's remember that some chem's can kill your BB and leaving your pond defend less to Ammo and Nitrites.

Have you checked your UV bulbs lately ?
They say change once a year also check the glass to make sure it is not all mucked up and no or very little uv light getting threw.

Ruben

 

[crsublette]

I do not know if a .2% water salinity will prevent the zeolite from absorbing the ammonia since salinity is what allows zeolite to stop absorbing and release the absorbed ammonia. Due to the already high ammonia accumulation, I would stop increasing the water's salinity and do some major water changes to reduce the salinity concentration, if you can afford the water cost.

 

[Waterbug]

I didn't see ammonia levels posted. And yeah, that's the problem with locking ammonia. If you don't have the right test, or understand how to use it, you have no idea if you've locked enough. So you really have little choice other than adding more and more. Gets expensive.

There are 2 kinds of ammonia. One is toxic, one is fairly safe. Most test kits tell you "Total Ammonia" meaning the total amount of both kinds. The two kinds convert back and forth as water temp and pH change. You can go to this web page and enter your Total Ammonia and then using temp and pH find how much of the toxic ammonia you have and decide from there what to do. No sense locking safe ammonia.

The chemicals you used didn't kill the algae because you didn't use the right amount. These must be used as directed to be effective and also not kill fish...because they will kill fish. Just adding some is not good enough. I know you didn't add enough because the algae is still alive. Assuming these are effective algaecides.

The level of salt is fine for nitrifying bacteria.

At 60F the growth rate of nitrifying bacteria is reduced by about 60% of optimal. But that kind of works out because in colder water ammonia is also less toxic. Many people test water in the spring, freak out when they see ammonia, start doing all kinds of things that aren't needed and can really hurt fish. 45-60F is a dangerous time to be stressing fish.

The kind of algae is hard to judge from a picture, but from the pictures, time of year and water temp my guess would be what I call a slime algae. If the water feels more more oily than plain water I'd call it a slime algae. Single cell algae feels like plain water. Slime algae is multiple cells, much bigger, so you can feel it. Another test is to put some in a tub or glass container and let it sit quietly out of the sun for a day and see if algae collects at the surface. That would be a slime algae. Scum algae would be another good term for it.

There are 1000's of species of algae, but none are immune to algaecides or UV. Slime algae, because it's multiple cells, is more difficult for UV. But your UV should have been able to handle it no problem since the water was clear (I assume the UV was on when clear).

Turning on UV after water is green is harder. Turning down water flow thru the UV can help. But for that size pond and that size UV (even just the 57 watt alone) I'm thinking there's some problem. Replacing the bulbs is a good idea, but yeah, 6 months should still have life in them, plus 57 watts is a lot anyways for 2800 gals. I mean just the 57 watt alone for 2800 gals can be run as a sterilizer which means 99.9% of things going in alive come out dead. That's for basically clear water, but still. So I'd be checking the water flow amount thru the UV. You should check what the manufacturer says, but something like 3000-3500 GPH would probably be in the sterilizer range which for that level of algae I think you'd need.

I don't know very much about slime algae because it generally never lasts very long. A few weeks. Hard to grow and experiment on.

It is true that algae consume ammonia directly. IMO you want to understand the toxic ammonia vs safe and be testing water if you kill the algae. Otherwise things could get worst fish wise.

Because you're seeing algae AND ammonia it means ammonia is not the limiting factor in algae growth. Or it could be the salt and/or chemicals are interfering with growth. You could test for phosphate and potassium to see if that was why the algae wasn't consuming 100% of the ammonia. If zero you could ad the missing nutrient to grow more algae and lower ammonia. Obviously probably not what you want to do, but I don't know your ammonia level or how much you want to risk the fish. Just saying.

I'm not sure algae can consume locked ammonia, you'd have to track that down. I know the bacteria can.

 

[crsublette]

When he is having a water temperature change of around slightly lower than 60*F all the way up to 70*F, then this does make the ammonia presence not safe.

Sure, the ammonia is safer at 55*F until the water temperature reaches 70*F. My guess is NJ is having a crazy Spring season for the water temperature to change that much.

Heck, in my area, today got up to 93*F and tomorrow it is supposed to only get up to 45*F with 29*F during night; the next two days the weather men are talking about chance of snow. Crazy. My water temperature must be swinging like crazy as well, but fish are ok so far; ugh, I just don't want to test my water temperature just yet since it would likely force me to make a mountain out of a mole hole.

If the ammonia is not address, then I bet ya the water temperature will warm up very much faster than what can be handled by the bio-filter's bacteria growth or release from hibernation.

 

[Waterbug]

Unlike you Charles I don't know what ammonia the OP has or doesn't have. Hence the link for the OP to check.

I really have no interest in betting what the OP's pond does in the future. If I could predict the future I'd use that skill in more productive ways. And I don't want to mislead lead the OP into thinking I can indeed predict the future.

 

[crsublette]

Irregardless of the volume of ammonia, the ammonia should be addressed now rather than later, if it potentially gets worst. Honestly, with a proper system, there shouldn't be any ammonia registering at all, even during the transition between Winter and Spring.

Don't need to predict the future to know how fast the water temperatures are going to change the situation, especially since the author already mentioned it can change quite noticeable.

I know goldfish and carp can tolerate a higher level of ammonia, all the way up to near 1.0ppm NH3 (far above the chart indicates) as told to me by Mr. Peters while starting to cycle a new tank, but, personally, I would not push it to that limit.