OPINION! *** My current thinking on water lilies. *** OPINION!

[dieselplower]

Have you lost any water clarity from depotting your lily DP? I have been using quilt batting to clear it up on the couple of ponds I am trying this on.

Oh and the roots are very soft.

I havent had time to look. Late day yesterday and early morning today. Will check tonight. Why would I lose clarity?

 

[HTH]

I havent had time to look. La te day yesterday and early morning today. Will check tonight. Why would I lose clarity?

Dirt-ish stuff stuck to the plant roots.

 

[fishin4cars]

The faster the lily grows the more nutrients it is pulling out of the water! Both potted and bare root lilies need periodic attention. With bare root you can be cutting it back instead of fertilizing.

When potted lilies break out of the pot they often have the pond nutrients all to themselves, or close to it. I have not verified this but I suspect growth slows in a nutrient poor pond. It is one of the things we need to check.

.This is where I see a concern worth mentioning. Yes the lily is pulling nutrients and removing nitrates, But at what cost to water quality. In a all plant pond or a pond with very low stocking levels a regular test kit will test almost perfect in many ponds. But does this mean that the water is REALLY safe for fish. This buildup around the lily in a pond where the fish will leave the root ball alone the gases are left undisturbed, and gradually release. Very similar to what happens when rocks are used on the bottom of a koi pond. But a Pond with say a 10-15" koi could easily become ill due to bacterial and fungal infections that are directly caused by poor water quality.

I'm not sure of your particular pond set-up. But in a case like Andy where the emphasis is on the plants the water is ideal for plant growth with little or no emphasis on the fish. In my pond the emphasis is on a equal relation of fish and plant health. I chose to control the lilies due to I don't won't the koi disturbing the root ball but I must keep close tabs on the fish because there is still more chances with the bog and numerous potted lilies I have to be aware that anaerobic and aerobic conditions do exist and therefore I have to watch for signs of problems by the fish themselves. Test kits are only limited to what they are designed to test. As far as I know there isn't a test available to test for inert gases or bad bacteria growth. I can tell you I have torn down ponds that the fish appear to be fine but once removed found sores or thin bodies, I have suspicion that is/ was related to the conditions I'm referring to but the only proof I have is experience and seeing this first hand. In almost every case I have found this, the water tested fine, was crystal clear and fantastic plant growth, but the fish were slowly suffering and in many cases were dying unnoticed as they had become over populated and missing one here and one there wasn't noticed at first. I think we can all agree that this is a problem that any pond can go through but in a heavy planted pond it seems to go unnoticed longer before being detected.

 

[HTH]

This is what I have seen so far.

My large lily pond went native, wall to wall lilies many out of pots for 5 or 6 year.. 5 koi and hundreds of goldfish thrived. When we pulled the lilies we had the typical lily root smell but not much hydrogen sulfide. I know this is subjective and one pond does not provide enough data. I am not asking or suggesting people grow wall to wall bare root lilies.

We pulled the plants then drained the pond to catch the fish. If the gas problem for bare roots was as bad as you are saying we should have had a pond full of dead and dying fish. I don't know.

Maybe the fish keep the roots sufficiently disturbed that large gas pockets do not form. We both know how koi love to dig in pots and I expect the do the same with the bare roots but more frequently.

One key to not having gas problem is to ensure that the water is vigorously degassed. Even without great circulation disolved gas will move to water with lower gas concentration, it disperses.

There are many different ways to keep ponds.

 

[Mucky_Waters]

There are many different ways to keep ponds.

You got that right.

Hope you didn't wear yourself out operating that little backhoe.

 

[fishin4cars]

Yes, each pond is different, and I agree with the thinking that maybe the high rate of aeration along with the koi digging may be some of the keys to why you didn't experience the gases. That's good information for all to learn from. But at the same time, seeing how much work was involved with that clean-out. Glad it was you and not me! I have to admit, I'm surprised at how large and nice those lilies are in presence of koi that size. I have had no such luck with that but I do keep many more Koi. Another thing I'm surprised works for you is the koi and goldfish not being eaten by predator birds in that shallow of a pond, I guess with the heavy lily growth they have plenty of good natural hiding spots.

 

[HTH]

Randy it was either buy the backhoe or fill in the pond. We needed ponds on both ends when we moved here and the holding pond got away from us. The plan was to replace it the next summer but with health problems etc...

@fishin4cars
The next version of this pond will have 3 compartments that combine when the pond is full. Then one can toss all the plants into the next compartment, chase the fish out, and drain the compartment dry for cleaning. With flat bottoms and all the plant I do not think bottom drains would be worth the effort. Still thinking. Something like this.

We have a rookery around here some place. They must know that with all the lilies it is too hard to catch a meal. A few days after we started pulling lilies I saw one sitting on a power pole. After that we went into high gear so we could get the fish out.

Not sure on the koi. Maybe it is just so much easier to get to what they are after that they don't need to screw up the plant. Also the lily to koi ratio was high so it could just be that.

 

[fishin4cars]

I like that idea the more I look at it for a lily pond. In the right setting ( which for me would work) you could set up bottom drain offs so you could drain a section without draining the other sections. Would take a little effort to make a drain off area so that the gunk wouldn't be sucked out of the drain until you were ready for it. Would also need pretty large drain opening with a good drop to flush out the lines but I think it is a possibility. I'm thinking more on the lines of 32' x 6' and making 6- 6'x6' sections. I would love a lily pond I could trim the leaves back from the sides of the pond without having to get in. Each section having a 3" drain line going to a single discharge.

 

[minnowman]

The sectional ponds could be built with full height divider walls and a plugable pipe connecting each pair.

 

[HTH]

That would work but then you would have to catch the fish to move them out of the compartment. When I last did this I could convince the fish to leave by feeding in the other compartment when there was just enough water covering the wall so they could cross comfortably.. Sometime I chased them across. Also it is a little easier to move the plants from compartment to compartment with the lower wall. But hey anything is possible.

I am going to try to build mine so that a row of blocks along the top of the wall will isolate the ponds enough that I can raise different types of goldfish in each compartment if I want to.