Pond and waterfall foam

[Pond skipper]

have any of you used pond and waterfall spray foam to secure your rocks and make your waterfalls water tight. Until now I have been letting my water flow over my carefully stacked rocks that make up my waterfall.. it works pretty well but there is always a bit of water loss or the back... I've been afraid to mess with my rock pile because the water flow is very nice the way it is but in getting tired of having to top up my pond once or twice a day when it falls below the skimmer line. I'm just wondering how much it expands (is it like the "great stuff" foam they sell for household repairs or is there less expansion? Does it really look natural and more ruin the look? I'd it effective at holding the rocks in place? And lastly, does it adhere to the EPDM well? Thanks in advance

 

[Lisak1]

You definitely want to use foam. It won't waterproof - but it will direct the water where you want it to go. As yo usaid, otherwise you are losing water behind the rocks and that's not good. You'll improve the look of your waterfall with foam too as you'll have more water going over the rocks.

It is EXACTLY like the Great Stuff foam, except it's black so it's virtually impossible to see. As it's drying, take a handful of tiny gravel or rock dust and push it into the surface and it will blend right in. If you've used Great Stuff, you know it expands A LOT. It somewhat holds rocks in place, but if you're trying you can pull rocks apart that have been foamed. It also deteriorates over time (especially if it's exposed to light I'm finding) so you may need to re-do in a few years.

I've never tried using it on EPDM, but it sticks to everything else so I don't see why not? @callingcolleen1 uses it to add decorative rocks, moss and other pieces of interest to her raised pond edge. Maybe she can post her Youtube video here so you can see her at work!

 

[poconojoe]

I don't use any foam. Where my waterfall is I formed a concave mound of soil then ran my liner up over that. All my stones and rocks are on top of that and are pitched down toward the pond. This way ANY water that gets under or around the waterfall stones is naturally directed into the pond by the liner. No guessing or hoping where the water might go and no relying on any glue or foam. As we all know, water will find its way through any crack or path. So my way of thinking is it will get through and around the rocks so I guide it with the liner where I want it.

 

[poconojoe]

As far as getting the waterfall to look and flow the way you want, it's not a one time setup. What I mean is, at least for me, it took a few rearrangements of the stones before I got it the way I really liked it.

 

[poconojoe]

If your liner isn't long enough to reach up over your intended waterfall area, then just get another piece of liner and make sure it overlaps well into the pond and over the existing liner.

 

[Pond skipper]

If your liner isn't long enough to reach up over your intended waterfall area, then just get another piece of liner and make sure it overlaps well into the pond and over the existing liner.

Thanks all, I like the idea of putting the pebbles or rock dust in it that should really make it blend. I have tons of liner that I didn't cut and the whole waterfall and garbage can/filter is on it but I really can't seem to figure a way of propping the liner up high enough to keep all the water in.. there is only a very small trickle getting out sometimes it's almost dry but that is the only place I can find where anything is leaking and the pole drops about 3" every 12 hours or so...I really don't think there are any holes in it I've been very careful with it and used underlay and even old strips of carpet upsidedown under the few rocks I have in the pond bottom. So that's the only place I can see any loss.. a friend said it could be evaporation from the waterfall etc. But I feel that it is too much loss to be just from that..

 

[poconojoe]

To determine if the loss of water is due to the waterfall, simply stop the flow over the falls and see if you're still losing water.
And as I said, if you create a large concave mound covered with liner, any and all water will flow into the pond. No guessing or hoping it wont leak around anything. I wouldn't trust any glue or foam to plug any gaps or holes. Water always finds a way. Form your mound and liner to guide the water where YOU want it. Gravity is your friend here. Very simple.

 

[Lisak1]

@poconojoe - you're correct. The water will flow to the pond if your liner is directing it that way. However, using foam will increase the amount of water that flows over the rocks vs behind and under. In some cases you could lose all the water behind the rocks before the waterfall even gets to the pond, depending on your waterfall design. Plus water running behind rocks could cause problems if your pond freezes in the winter - ice damming could happen behind your rocks leading to displaced rocks or diverted water. As you said - water finds a way. And sometimes that way is out.

 

[poconojoe]

@poconojoe - you're correct. The water will flow to the pond if your liner is directing it that way. However, using foam will increase the amount of water that flows over the rocks vs behind and under. In some cases you could lose all the water behind the rocks before the waterfall even gets to the pond, depending on your waterfall design. Plus water running behind rocks could cause problems if your pond freezes in the winter - ice damming could happen behind your rocks leading to displaced rocks or diverted water. As you said - water finds a way. And sometimes that way is out.

I see what you saying about water migrating behind the falls..." depending on your waterfall design". However, I never run my waterfall in the winter. When the pond freezes over, the falls might direct water from under the ice to the top of the frozen pond. This might result in water escaping the pond over the ice, draining the water from underneath the ice and even collapsing the ice due to the void. The result would danger the fish perhaps even emptying the pond of a large amount of water. Just my theory. I just won't chance it.

 

[Pond skipper]

I am going to combine all suggestions. I think, once upon a time I knew about t turning off the waterfall pump to see if that stopped the leak... Lol. Don't know where my brain went there.. I will do that today.. unfortunately I don't have a big pile of dirt to make a concave mound out of at the moment.. I might in September, and if I do I will definitely do that.. that was sort of the plan from the beginning so I didn't cut all the excess liner yet...( Pond was originally going to be 4-5 ft deep and a bit bigger until I moved to a smaller property with more trees lol..: so there's lots of longer left but I hate cutting it.. The filter/garbage can and all the rocks are all on top of it but right now I would have to make some sort of wood frame to hold up the liner to keep it all going on to the pond. Thanks for the help everyone

 

[poconojoe]

Smart on your part not to cut the excess liner. You never know and you can just hide it, but you can't get it back if you cut it.

 

[Lisak1]

When the pond freezes over, the falls might direct water from under the ice to the top of the frozen pond.

Correct. I could also see the ice building up to the point that it would displace rocks - ice expands. I love my waterfall in winter - the ice formations are pretty cool to see. But again - your waterfall construction needs to accommodate ice without damming and diverting water.

 

[Pond skipper]

Smart on your part not to cut the excess liner. You never know and you can just hide it, but you can't get it back if you cut it.

So I unplugged the waterfall 6 hrs ago and not only did the water not going down it went up..: I'm pretty sure that's because the filter emptied back into the pond lol... Anyway the point is.: Yahooo!! The waterfall definitely is the culprit... !! That will be corrected tomorrow.. thanks again for the ideas

 

[poconojoe]

So I unplugged the waterfall 6 hrs ago and not only did the water not going down it went up..: I'm pretty sure that's because the filter emptied back into the pond lol... Anyway the point is.: Yahooo!! The waterfall definitely is the culprit... !! That will be corrected tomorrow.. thanks again for the ideas

Good luck and report back with your findings/results.