POST MORTEM RE: Shubunkins haven't moved for weeks

Discussion in 'Fish & Koi Talk' started by Mickowitz, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. Mickowitz

    Mickowitz

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    My previous post described the slow decline and death of all fish in my outdoor container pond, except one mosquitofish and two trapdoor snails. Pics are a few of the casualties. It was not ich—no white spots at all. I suspect something fungal or bacterial.

    I'm going to start over again, methodically, to revive the pond. I assume I should empty and scrub out the 40 gal. trough container, pump, and filter, after which I will refill, treat with decholorinator/conditioner, and then introduce new shubunkins and mosquitofish. Should I decontaminate with a chlorine solution and rinse?

    BUT, should I:
    1. Also treat the new water with a broad-spectrum product before adding fish? Which are recommended? The mosquitofish people at the Vector Control office here also recommended adding a 1/2 tsp. of table salt per gallon to the initial water fill as a destressing treatment—yes or no?
    2. Keep or discard the aquatic plants—a couple of water hyacinth, a parrot feather, and bunches of water lettuce? Rinse and reuse? soak in separate container of broad-spectrum-treated water before reintroducing
    3. Keep and reintroduce the surviving mosquitofish and snails? Treat them before reintroducing?
      IMG_2042.JPG fullsizeoutput_4bec.jpeg fullsizeoutput_4bed.jpeg IMG_E2083.JPG
     
    Mickowitz, Dec 8, 2017
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  2. Mickowitz

    sissy sissy

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    Do you have a filter .I would put fat fantails in there
     
    sissy, Dec 8, 2017
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  3. Mickowitz

    Lisak1

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    Your water volume is too small for shubunkins. They can easily grow to 8 or 10 inches. I agree with @sissy on this one - stick with goldfish that will stay small like fantails. Even comets will get too big for this small container pond long term.
     
    Lisak1, Dec 9, 2017
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  4. Mickowitz

    Meyer Jordan Tadpole

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    Get rid of all of the mosquito fish. They are notorious for being disease carriers.
     
    Meyer Jordan, Dec 9, 2017
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  5. Mickowitz

    Faebinder

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    Definitely get rid of mosquitofish cause they will cause an unseen fish load on your pond. If you are worried about mosquitoes use dunks and don't use floating plants.
     
    Faebinder, Dec 10, 2017
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  6. Mickowitz

    Faebinder

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    Regarding your plants..

    Put them in a separate container with no fish or snails (you hope)..

    Wash them KMnO4, use hydrogen peroxide and keep them isolated at least 3 days.

    But it’s just cheaper to just toss them and get new ones.
     
    Faebinder, Dec 11, 2017
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  7. Mickowitz

    Mickowitz

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    Thank you for answering two of my questions, faebinder! Don’t have the KMnO4 but do have plenty of hydrogen peroxide. Will it be safe if I only treat them with this; if so, what amount should I use per gallon of water?

    Can I put the two trapdoor snails in the “new” pond? Should they be quarantined in a container treated with a broad spectrum med first?

    And, here in the Los Angeles region, every pond I’ve seen, including those with koi and “professionally” maintained, also has a population of mosquito fish. Perhaps in our area they are a necessity? Would just a small handful really cause problems? I’ve had just a couple in my shubbies’ previous pond for several years before this disaster.
     
    Mickowitz, Dec 11, 2017
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  8. Mickowitz

    Mickowitz

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    Yes, I have a mechanical filter. 40 gallons is really too small for even 2 or 3 shubbies? I’ve heard multiple times that they grow as large as their environment allows.
     
    Mickowitz, Dec 11, 2017
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  9. Mickowitz

    Faebinder

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    I f you do straight H2O2 the plants wont get hurt, only any algae in there.... but the snails may get hurt... Snails carry disease so I would be careful with transferring snails. If you use H2O2 there are no guarantees of killing the pathogen but it may kill other tiny carriers.... I would isolate the plants for two weeks at least.

    A handful of mosquitofish will eventually bloom like crazy.... if you are want to kill mosquitoes then use dunks or even isolate a bunch of minnows for a month before adding them to the pond. 1 entire month.... not 2 weeks. Chances are the koi will eat them as the koi gets bigger.
     
    Faebinder, Dec 11, 2017
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  10. Mickowitz

    Nick83 Jack of all trades, Master of none.

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    Yeah that is a myth. If you want your fish to live healthy and long lives, I would do more research and being here is a great start!

    Goodluck, I hope you can get your pond healthy and thriving so you can enjoy.
     
    Nick83, Dec 15, 2017
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  11. Mickowitz

    Lisak1

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    The problem is that "small handful" soon becomes a giant hoard. They are very successful breeders. Shubunkins are rumored to be great mosquito larvae fans, so you have your solution already in your plan.

    And the idea that fish only grow as large as their environment is so odd to me. The ocean is filled with GIANT creatures and microscopic creatures - why wouldn't they all grow as large as possible? That's just one giant myth perpetrated by the people who are trying to sell people fish that don't belong in the containers they want to keep them in. We have a patio pond (small container pond - about 45 gallons) and every spring when I set it up, I catch three or four of our smallest goldfish and put them in for the summer. Invariably by fall they will have doubled in size.
     
    Lisak1, Dec 16, 2017
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