Reconstructing/revamping shelves 17 year old pond + plants? (newbie)

[Duxwig]

With making/finding the waterfall box does the depth make a difference?

Took a granola box which was 11.5” x 8 x 3 which was a pretty good size but 8-9” for the width probably better for the space, but wondering how deep it has to be.

Deeper box needs to be probably more issues may present.
Any with a DIY it’s largely cutting a hole and attaching some certain fitting correct?

Pulled liner up from river area.

 

[combatwombat]

Are you trying to filter with the waterfall box or just distribute water?

 

[Duxwig]

Are you trying to filter with the waterfall box or just distribute water?

Only distribute

 

[combatwombat]

Only distribute

Cool. Then depth doesn’t matter. Just volume/width of spillway. How many GPH are expecting to run through it?

 

[brokensword]

Cool. Then depth doesn’t matter. Just volume/width of spillway. How many GPH are expecting to run through it?

if he puts a valve on the wFall feed, it doesn't matter, does it? He can dial whatever flow desired. Course, I'd put a wye on the pump and still use the pump's full function. Better too large a pump than too small.

jus' my 2 cents!

 

[Duxwig]

Have a few little other projects(rebuild bridge, making a waterfall box that fits, figuring out rock structure of the mound) but mainly came with a liner question (end).
Has been a busy fall, but this is where I'm leaving off. Measured all the depths and shelves and etc for ordering a future liner. This is the pond naked of all liners for once. Have a bit more carving of some shelves to redefine and pump hole, but otherwise is what it is. Thought final inlet/drop coming into the ground level pond on the right from about the 3oclock or 2oclock angles, the 2oclock angle giving me a wider platform considering space to make the water pool/drop in.

If you have suggestions, I'll still take them, but it's weighted against "just being done" next springs/summer asap - so little changes more apt to be done.
(again rocks on bottom of the mound are just currently support, not meant to be long term - can/will change that to whatever is needed really if you have suggestions on aesthetics.)

With all the measurements believe I need a 20x30 liner, of which I will cut off 5ft of the 20 ft. The main section will overage fit the main pond, and the extra strip will run up the river, to the ground level pound, then back up the mound. The strip will be seamed where pond/river meet, and at an angle w/ the ground level pound on the mound.

My MAIN question being - holy heck - yes pond liner is heavy, but has it always been really expensive to ship or just the current markets?
Went to Just Liners to get a 45 mil EPDM 20x30, and shipping was $187 as the only option. Yikes.
Another site kept giving errors and couldnt check the cost, and another was sold out.

 

[brokensword]

Have a few little other projects(rebuild bridge, making a waterfall box that fits, figuring out rock structure of the mound) but mainly came with a liner question (end).
Has been a busy fall, but this is where I'm leaving off. Measured all the depths and shelves and etc for ordering a future liner. This is the pond naked of all liners for once. Have a bit more carving of some shelves to redefine and pump hole, but otherwise is what it is. Thought final inlet/drop coming into the ground level pond on the right from about the 3oclock or 2oclock angles, the 2oclock angle giving me a wider platform considering space to make the water pool/drop in.

If you have suggestions, I'll still take them, but it's weighted against "just being done" next springs/summer asap - so little changes more apt to be done.
(again rocks on bottom of the mound are just currently support, not meant to be long term - can/will change that to whatever is needed really if you have suggestions on aesthetics.)


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With all the measurements believe I need a 20x30 liner, of which I will cut off 5ft of the 20 ft. The main section will overage fit the main pond, and the extra strip will run up the river, to the ground level pound, then back up the mound. The strip will be seamed where pond/river meet, and at an angle w/ the ground level pound on the mound.

My MAIN question being - holy heck - yes pond liner is heavy, but has it always been really expensive to ship or just the current markets?
Went to Just Liners to get a 45 mil EPDM 20x30, and shipping was $187 as the only option. Yikes.
Another site kept giving errors and couldnt check the cost, and another was sold out.

I can see the possibilities with everything cleaned/cleared up; should look great when done!

Can't remember exact prices but think I paid about $1200 (incl shipping) for 40x30' HDRPE liner coming from the PNW to Michigan back in 2019. EPDM is heavier and since most shipping is based on weight...

 

[teckpham]

Big project. Looks fun

My MAIN question being - holy heck - yes pond liner is heavy, but has it always been really expensive to ship or just the current markets?
Went to Just Liners to get a 45 mil EPDM 20x30, and shipping was $187 as the only option. Yikes.
Another site kept giving errors and couldnt check the cost, and another was sold out.

My 50x20 47mil (No idea why the small increase. They ran out of 45mil) EPDM cost me $95 shipping and I thought that was expensive. It arrived in a big truck with it the only thing inside hahaha.
Yes, it was bloody heavy. 2 people couldn't carry it. Have to use a trolley.

 

[Duxwig]

Well the savings go on then. Been saving my fun bux to order it. Going to be a bit longer.

If I find some plastic paper holder drawer with a flat front opening, can I use that as the waterfall box? Lol
Figure it can be like 4” deep to save room but maybe not.

 

[GBBUDD]

You can build what ever you would like but that design is generally way more work then its rewards.

Plexi glass is very easy to work with and /glue bond. Or make one out of plywood and wrap it in rubber. And staple it and glue/construction adhesive.

 

[brokensword]

Well the savings go on then. Been saving my fun bux to order it. Going to be a bit longer.

If I find some plastic paper holder drawer with a flat front opening, can I use that as the waterfall box? Lol
Figure it can be like 4” deep to save room but maybe not.
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I used something similar but it was deeper (file cabinet plastic box from Big Box Store) and cut two 1" vertical slits on either side and 12" long at the top, took a heat gun and warmed the narrow piece, then folded it perpendicular to form the weir. Make sure you have something solid and straight beneath when you bend or upon cooling, the weir blade will not uniformly distribute water over it and it'll pour more than sheet. My box had a top which was handy for hiding the weir box at the top of my waterfall with flat slate stone on it. I used 1-1/2" bulkheads for the inlet and attached to a feed from one of my pumps (I have 2 of these box weirs; one for each main waterfall). So, it can be done on the cheap.

 

[Duxwig]

February means pond season is almost upon me again and working on details to finish project.

Rebuilt the bridge yesterday, increased the height since there was little room prior.

Need to make a waterfall spillway also. Likely get new tubing, hopefully not backordered - but planned to do DIY waterfall spillway. Unless I hack plastic/heat gun/full DIY, this is the best I found. It's 6" deep, but the lip is only 2", about 11"x11" if I recall.

Still hoping to do some type of small cascading spillways into the main river. The box looks a little big for the area when I think about the size and diameter of side rocks. (of course it would be IN the dirt, but trying to get a feel)

Menards had an 8" waterfall spillway. It was rather affordable about $30. Size was 8" by 6" by 14" i think. I think I need to find the appropriate sizes/fittings and what hose I'd need, but feeling more inclined to go that way, and maybe I can fashion some small filter in it (since no other filtration in pond other than intended plants, no bog).

 

[brokensword]

February means pond season is almost upon me again and working on details to finish project.

Rebuilt the bridge yesterday, increased the height since there was little room prior.
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Need to make a waterfall spillway also. Likely get new tubing, hopefully not backordered - but planned to do DIY waterfall spillway. Unless I hack plastic/heat gun/full DIY, this is the best I found. It's 6" deep, but the lip is only 2", about 11"x11" if I recall.

Still hoping to do some type of small cascading spillways into the main river. The box looks a little big for the area when I think about the size and diameter of side rocks. (of course it would be IN the dirt, but trying to get a feel)
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Menards had an 8" waterfall spillway. It was rather affordable about $30. Size was 8" by 6" by 14" i think. I think I need to find the appropriate sizes/fittings and what hose I'd need, but feeling more inclined to go that way, and maybe I can fashion some small filter in it (since no other filtration in pond other than intended plants, no bog).

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I'd seriously figure out how to make part of your soil berm/waterfall into a bog filter for two reasons; anything you put in that weir will be small, almost a non existant/functional, and harder to change out/clean, PLUS, you'll be cleaning probably more than your enthusiasm will carry you. Two; a bog filter will do a lot more and be practically maintenance free; you'll just need to thin plants every now and then. Just my 2 cents.

And re which container; if you go larger, you can always camouflage any 'extra' portion you don't want to see and even narrow it down to your liking, should the sheeting action/waterfall be too much. With a smaller one, you can only go smaller so it better be the visioin you want right out the get go. Use bulkhead fittings with holes cut (I used a hole saw bit) and flex pvc, but not the 'kink-free' tubing they like to sell with most filters/pumps that are smaller scale. It IS kink free but it's also cheap and will break suddenly/sooner than you wish.

That larger one though looks like it might be a bit flimsy; I used something from a big box store, but it was file box duty, a bit firmer and with a top, which came in handy for the camo treatment because I could put rocks on top (flat, all the way across to support the weight). Then I put plants behind and around to naturalize even more.

Nice bridge mod!

 

[Duxwig]

I'd seriously figure out how to make part of your soil berm/waterfall into a bog filter for two reasons; anything you put in that weir will be small, almost a non existant/functional, and harder to change out/clean, PLUS, you'll be cleaning probably more than your enthusiasm will carry you. Two; a bog filter will do a lot more and be practically maintenance free; you'll just need to thin plants every now and then. Just my 2 cents.

And re which container; if you go larger, you can always camouflage any 'extra' portion you don't want to see and even narrow it down to your liking, should the sheeting action/waterfall be too much. With a smaller one, you can only go smaller so it better be the visioin you want right out the get go. Use bulkhead fittings with holes cut (I used a hole saw bit) and flex pvc, but not the 'kink-free' tubing they like to sell with most filters/pumps that are smaller scale. It IS kink free but it's also cheap and will break suddenly/sooner than you wish.

That larger one though looks like it might be a bit flimsy; I used something from a big box store, but it was file box duty, a bit firmer and with a top, which came in handy for the camo treatment because I could put rocks on top (flat, all the way across to support the weight). Then I put plants behind and around to naturalize even more.

Nice bridge mod!

Still not sure on the bog idea and/or the space/appearance. Not sure I can be sold, so I struggle with my stubbornness plan and the "best" it can be.

This is the waterfall spillway (8") Im considering: https://www.amazon.com/pond-boss-Waterfall-Spillway-8/dp/B00VBP5TQS
Picture below with why I like it after consideration.

And piping, I think everyone was talking about this? https://flexpvc.com/cart/agora.cgi?product=3_Flex_PVC_Pipe_1_inch
As everyone knows, I'm a horrible artist by I'll try.
Why I dont think larger than 8" will likely work well now.
* The retaining wall blocks cut into the available space downward, additionally, the large red circle will be the first pool the waterfall goes into.
* The box lip/weir is only 2" but the total height is 6". It additionally needs height to "drop" the falls (who'd do 2" drop?), further increasing the height increase (or attempts to dig it down, which means the whole berm gets lowered).
* The rocks on each side to set the frame will have some relative diameter relative to their height. Height is the main concern, but the rocks will be large, and the space is only about 13-15" wide depending on how you consider it. the large rock on the slope would be larger than the top back to balance it a bit...still would look awkward at this size.

The 8" spillway makes me not have to do any DIY. The shape is more conducive to the space restraints. The weir/L shape allows the coverage mound to be smaller in height/oddity. I'm getting a 3000gph pump so it'll probably have some initial kick coming out 8", but I plan to have wider cascading spillways which will achieve some of the falls effect.
the amazon reviews also shows DIY filters.

I guess I was against guying any kind of waterfall filter/spillway. Now that I have something to visualize the space again, it just doesn't seem feasible larger than 8". The waterfall box from amazon fits a lot of checkmarks for me personally. (not in an expertise sense though)

 

[SarahT]

Your pond is looking good and I've been enjoying reading the construction talks. I am a recent bog convert from 20+ years of various filtering systems. The bog really is an easier way to filter for clear water and fun for planting in. I used a similar spillway for a number of years and it worked just fine for the size pond I had. Have fun! Spring is around the corner.