Reconstructing/revamping shelves 17 year old pond + plants? (newbie)


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It may be a bit for me to mentally process all that, but thank you for the quick and thorough response and pics!

I have to sort through with costs. “feels” like it’s going to be over budget and the project sponsor is gonna bawk. The idea still intrigued me. The piping is my biggest worry since metal pipes burst easy here and I couldn’t see anything else holding up loads better w any water going through.

This is the pump I was eyeing before.
 
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It may be a bit for me to mentally process all that, but thank you for the quick and thorough response and pics!

I have to sort through with costs. “feels” like it’s going to be over budget and the project sponsor is gonna bawk. The idea still intrigued me. The piping is my biggest worry since metal pipes burst easy here and I couldn’t see anything else holding up loads better w any water going through.

This is the pump I was eyeing before.
ain't no metal in the pics, Dux; just flexible (Flex) pvc, which is soft but not as much as you'd expect!

1-1/2" flex pvc at Amazon

Get a pump that will last and don't worry about initial cost; better one pump that costs more but lasts longer than 2 that don't. And again, consider TWO pumps so if your pump fails, you still have circulation while you fix/replace the other. Haven't figure head pressure in a while but it's not too hard; check to make sure this pump HAS a head pressure chart. And calc the distance + height total. You can ignore the pipe's friction, to an extent, and just round up to be sure you have enough. With ball valves, you can tailor the flow but not if you under-spec the pump in the first place. For my pond, I originally had 2500ish gallons and was using a 4K pump. I expanded to 7K and added one more 4k pump, but put in place the adaptor/wye/reducer system to stay near optimum flow specs.

I'd price out the filter, then price out how much pvc, pea gravel, fittings are going to cost. It may be a bit more at first, but you'll gain tremendously by never having to clean nor replace; ever!
 
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Very likely will need to make trade offs. 2nd pump is a 0% option. I’m still not sure I can get buy-in even w the pump I posted.

Project sponsor doesn’t get ponds, need or want a pond, and would have her dad come over with a truck and backhoe to fill it in while I’m at work if there was only one person deciding. She’s been amenable to discussion but this is all throwing rocks at a bee hive. For me- I’d rather have a crappy pond than no pond.
 
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Very likely will need to make trade offs. 2nd pump is a 0% option. I’m still not sure I can get buy-in even w the pump I posted.

Project sponsor doesn’t get ponds, need or want a pond, and would have her dad come over with a truck and backhoe to fill it in while I’m at work if there was only one person deciding. She’s been amenable to discussion but this is all throwing rocks at a bee hive. For me- I’d rather have a crappy pond than no pond.

okay, time to call in the OTG professionals; be ye a-listenin???

What you NEED to do is make the whole pond experience into something OTHER than about the pond. So, for instance, and knowing very little about you, consider what your sponsor likes, turn it more toward that. Find ANY common 'like' with ponding, and use it. Make it festive, make the experience of actually BEING by the pond some thing fun. Something your sponsor looks forward to doing again. Whatever it is. Slowly, surely, you'll win them over, maybe not into ponding proper as you appear to be, but to the time you spend there. My wife is TOTALLY not into any of my filter, building, tweaking talks; her eyes glaze over, but what I do is make the time on the patio fun, AND I talk fish etc in an off hand manner (when I think of it!). We have drinks, play card games, watch movies, make notes on various parts we BOTH like, etc. It IS good 'my' sponsor likes flowers, so I make sure the plants I put in the pondhouse have flowers and are not just for texture! Surprisingly, she likes the frogs--go figure--and I had HER name the ones we'd see most often. Stuff like that, keeps her invested and interested. I put an audio system by the pond/patio, this creates a different atmosphere for her, too. Wind chimes, does your sponsor like wind chimes? You have to LOOK for 'ins' to getting both of you into an area you're obviously more desiring!

It's like this; you want a new porsche, your significant other says 'no way', so you buy her a diamond ring, FIRST. Then the next time you notice a porsche on the streets, you sigh fondly. Get it?

Gals? Am I right? Guys? Care to chime in? We're having a group hug here, a real CAstle bonding experience...I NEEDS all the GPF help I can get!!!

;):cool::p:D:eek::oops::rolleyes:
 

j.w

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okay, time to call in the OTG professionals; be ye a-listenin???

What you NEED to do is make the whole pond experience into something OTHER than about the pond. So, for instance, and knowing very little about you, consider what your sponsor likes, turn it more toward that. Find ANY common 'like' with ponding, and use it. Make it festive, make the experience of actually BEING by the pond some thing fun. Something your sponsor looks forward to doing again. Whatever it is. Slowly, surely, you'll win them over, maybe not into ponding proper as you appear to be, but to the time you spend there. My wife is TOTALLY not into any of my filter, building, tweaking talks; her eyes glaze over, but what I do is make the time on the patio fun, AND I talk fish etc in an off hand manner (when I think of it!). We have drinks, play card games, watch movies, make notes on various parts we BOTH like, etc. It IS good 'my' sponsor likes flowers, so I make sure the plants I put in the pondhouse have flowers and are not just for texture! Surprisingly, she likes the frogs--go figure--and I had HER name the ones we'd see most often. Stuff like that, keeps her invested and interested. I put an audio system by the pond/patio, this creates a different atmosphere for her, too. Wind chimes, does your sponsor like wind chimes? You have to LOOK for 'ins' to getting both of you into an area you're obviously more desiring!

It's like this; you want a new porsche, your significant other says 'no way', so you buy her a diamond ring, FIRST. Then the next time you notice a porsche on the streets, you sigh fondly. Get it?

Gals? Am I right? Guys? Care to chime in? We're having a group hug here, a real CAstle bonding experience...I NEEDS all the GPF help I can get!!!

;):cool::p:D:eek::oops::rolleyes:
Well it mighta worked before but since you let the works outta the bag what gal on here is gonna fall for that now? I'm keeping an eye out on this sort of thing happening in my house. I get a gift the first thing I'm saying is thanks honey but you still aren't gettin that Jaguar M80 or whatever rocks your boat :D
 
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Well it mighta worked before but since you let the works outta the bag what gal on here is gonna fall for that now? I'm keeping an eye out on this sort of thing happening in my house. I get a gift the first thing I'm saying is thanks honey but you still aren't gettin that Jaguar M80 or whatever rocks your boat :D
then yer hubby kingy ain't doing it right, not the buying of the diamond--I'm sure he's more than capable there, I mean the 'sigh'. Ya gots to include a long pause, you can't be loud, almost do it as a longing whisper...and, if he practices enough, the whole idea here is YOU think getting the Porshe is YOUR idea, not HIS! Sheesh! Amateurs!

And, what makes you think he hasn't already set it up so you KNOW he's asking for something but really isn't, thereby giving you even MORE reason to look twice at that Porsche...ever hear of 'Inception'? Does the cable line actually reach your annex to the CAstle or do you have to go down the street and hook it up to an old amp and tube tv? Dayum, we gots ta upgrade the West Coast budget if that's the case...you still using those two tin cans and string to call for pizza delivery?

:p ;) :D :cool: :giggle:
 
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btw, Dux; here's a pump to consider. I have one, but it's a backup to my backups simply because it was so affordable. Can't vouch for longevity but I don't hear awful stories about it either. If you take care of it, clean it now and then, don't let the seals dry out (that is, KEEP the pump always wet), it should serve you. Total head is 23 ft. it's less than half the cost of the one you linked, at comparable gph.

link;

Harbor Freight 4.5k pond pump
 
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Having issues sourcing EPDM 30x25 for less than 1000 shipped. Placed an order but one company mailed saying it was out of stock.

I’ve seen a few people mention BTL Liners. I called and they make RPE Reinforced Polyethylene. They noted it was about 510+120 for the piece shipped. It was 30 or 40ml for the highest thickness, 24mil being 360$ Claimed it was strong than EPDM and lighter, suggested I could use underlayment on rocky areas but otherwise not needed. (Plan to reuse what I have)

Suggested seaming my two pieces @ 5-6’ with to be done with a heat gun and had instructions on their site. Haven’t looked yet to time. Flex pvc will go up and over into bog box, no skimmers, etc.

Thoughts?
I’m extremely intrigued and ready to bite the bullet with time of the year and prices.
 
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I used RPE on my feature. Very tough stuff. Doesn’t conform to curves as nicely as epdm, but it’s workable.

Heat welding is definitely doable, but it takes a skilled hand. Lots of practice. The video makes it look easier than it is.
 
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At 1/2 the price, thoughts on giving it a go? May need to pick your brain later on seaming?
 
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addy1

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I used BTL liner for my pond and bog. It is some tough stuff. I ran over it with the tractor loading the pea gravel. No leaks.

Less slippery than the epdm.
 
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Having issues sourcing EPDM 30x25 for less than 1000 shipped. Placed an order but one company mailed saying it was out of stock.

I’ve seen a few people mention BTL Liners. I called and they make RPE Reinforced Polyethylene. They noted it was about 510+120 for the piece shipped. It was 30 or 40ml for the highest thickness, 24mil being 360$ Claimed it was strong than EPDM and lighter, suggested I could use underlayment on rocky areas but otherwise not needed. (Plan to reuse what I have)

Suggested seaming my two pieces @ 5-6’ with to be done with a heat gun and had instructions on their site. Haven’t looked yet to time. Flex pvc will go up and over into bog box, no skimmers, etc.

Thoughts?
I’m extremely intrigued and ready to bite the bullet with time of the year and prices.

justliners.com 45 mil epdm
20'x30' EPDM 45 Mil PondGard
20'x30' EPDM 45 Mil PondGard
Price: $642.00 my shipping on a 30x45 was 445.0 twice your size it maybe under a grand
Code: PG20-EPDM45-03

Weight: 195.00 pounds
 
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Have been plodding away.
The bog box and mound tiers are starting to take shape. Not a final or even a test version but working to visualize.
2756BA3C-8639-482B-BDDA-464AB53BEA40.jpeg



5CAD7141-83D7-41BC-81A1-38881AA54EF2.jpeg


This was a prior shot and some of the possible water flow.
980687C4-C29D-47C3-BF22-F3B5183E6680.jpeg
 
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Decided to pull the liner to start letting things dry - was excited to see the shelves from last year.
No support. Crumbled entirely. All that work - just exercise now.

Learned I’m going to put in some concrete support blocks. It looks as bad as when I started. THIS. WILL. NEVER. HAPPEN. AGAIN.

THE FIGHT IS ON!
90481F62-B28E-42FA-9474-626A84AEDA10.jpeg
 
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CONCRETE can have sharp edges you may need to round them over if they are going to be close to the liner or fabric. very easy to do with a cup or scarifier for a grinder
 
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Using the old liner and layment. Using RPE liner. Considered doing some light hammer work on some areas. Was against most of this at the start (concrete under), but it’ll never be seen again in my life time probably.
 
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The only problem with using foam insulation is never use the cheap white stuff the little white balls all glued into sheats ..TERMITES AND CARPENTER ANTS LOVE THAT STUFF....
THOSE FOAM BOARDs @poconojoe is talking about we use to place under concrete slabs in compression strength they are incredibly strong and durable
 
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I wonder if you could use that solid construction insulation foam? You know, the boards of blue or pink stuff.
You can carve it too.
And it certainly won't harm any liner.
Interesting thought. Does it biodegrade?
 

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