Salt?

[JohnHuff]

Sarcasm doesn't become you... I claimed nothing of the sort in my post, only that "I don't read any positive or negative aspect into it, it's merely information that needs to be filtered and digested."

Oh yes, you are very fair and balanced. Not judgemental at all. I stand corrected. Thanks for setting the record straight.

 

[crsublette]

My friends with Koi ponds do not seem to worry about salt levels in their ponds. Some do not add salt at all and seem to think I am crazy? Am I crazy? Most Koi sites recommend using salt (.3) in their ponds to help fish maintain outer skin health and prevent some types of problems. Please let me know what you think. I have well water and my pond tester says my readings are within acceptable ranges.

Outside the context of a quarantine tank, salt should only be viewed as a proactive, preventive health care instrument for fish such as a short duration of a couple weeks, until significant dilution, or a temporary defense of nitrite poisoning until the nitrite concentration is reduced. Also, if you have plants, then they will get harmed even by a .3% salinity; there are some bog plants that can tolerate a .3% salinity, but very few can tolerate a higher salinity and most fully submerged aquatic plants will die in a salinity above .1%.

First Time High Ammonia - This thread, along with refernced hyperlinks within it, also talks about salt, proper procedures, and my opinion on when to or not to use salt.

 

[crsublette]

In regards to the ulcer, WB's post#13 summed it up quite well.

Ulcers are a secondary infection. An infection resulting as an attack from bacteria's access to a wound, a parasite trasnporting the bacteria, skin reacting to a parasite invading the fish, or water quality parameters weakening the fish's slime coat and immune system allowing the fish to become susceptible to a secondary infection, such as an ulcer or fungus.

Typically, from what I am told, the ulcers are directly addressed to avoid scarring on the fish, but the fish may likely survive the ulcer if they are not too severe and not numerous.

 

[Dave 54]

Things have moved on along way since salt we are all forgeting how ulcers come about in the first place an threasons for them .
Namely that they are brought about due to the following that is over crowding poor water quality, temperature fluctuations etc .
Bacterial problems in the pond can be brought on by a numbr of species of bacteria the most common amongst them being Aeromonas Hydrohilia .
We employ the constant water change which wb so rightfully pointed out.
But the thing is we shouldnt be getting them in the first place if your getting them then your doing something wrong plain and simple and that has to be addressed.
Koi are fresh water fish so we simply dont use it is the pond prefaring instead sort term salt dips, over salting the pond.
This way if necessary we can treat the pond with chemicals
Salting can lead to other problems when used in the pond enviroment,it can infact if the conditions are right turn a pond toxic.
So salt should stay out of the pond permanent...
If you must or have to use salt, use salt dips , to aviod ulcers constant maintenance water, changes pond and filter maintenance and attention to detail are a must.
In doing so we avoid leaving our charges open to such attacks on them. however if your unlucky enough to suffer an ulcer remember treatments have changed we use a product called koi clear which is an ozonated gell over older treatments.
All in all salt in ponds especially koi ponds should not be used , salt baths however can be employed .
To avoid ulcers constant maintenance is a must , ulcers are esthetically not pleasing when looking at a koi swimming by with a scar the size of your fist the koi's value is gone you can no longer show it....

rgrds

Dave

 

[waynefrcan]

The salt levels are .01 or .03, not .1 or .3 :cheerful:

 

[crsublette]

The salt levels are .01 or .03, not .1 or .3 :cheerful:

For tap water far from the coast, then yes, the salinity levels are .01~.03%, that is assuming you are writing in salinity percent. :cheerful:

Tap water from coastal cities, with significant water treatment, then the salinity levels may likely hover around .02~.18% salinity (that is .2~.18ppt). Supposedly, water with a .16~.18% salinity should not be consumed by humans, but I swear I have, back when the big city near me was pulling water from a particular lake, the water was terrible.

Actually, after using some calcium and magnesium products to increase water hardness, then, sure, due to the chloride ion contribution, the salinity levels in ponds may naturally be around .01~.03% salinity.

By the way, water can have a .18% salinity and still not taste salty. The salty taste depends on the chloride compound used that dominates the salinity concentration.


When talking about neutralizing Nitrite concentrations, then we are actually talking about .10~.30% salinity, dependent on nitrite concentration; however, most freshwater fully submerged aquatic plants will die, or be significantly harmed, if the salinity is above .10%

 

[waynefrcan]

I messed that up, it is .1 % not .01

 

[crsublette]

Tap water from coastal cities, with significant water treatment, then the salinity levels may likely hover around 1) .02~.18% salinity (that is .2~.18ppt). Supposedly, water with a .16~.18% salinity should not be consumed by humans, but I swear I have, back when the big city near me was pulling water from a particular lake, the water was terrible.

1) .02~.18% salinity (that is .2~.18ppt).

.02~.18% salinity is actually .20~1.8ppt. My mistake, missed a decimal.

100% salinity = 1000 ppt

1% salinity = 10 ppt

.10% salinity = 1ppt

Multiply the salinity percent by 10 and this gives the proper ppt. Divide ppt by 10 and this gives the proper salinity percent.

 

[crsublette]

I messed that up, it is .1 % not .01

There ya go.

 

[waynefrcan]

Now the local fish guy is saying to use freshwater salt formulated for ponds and not marine salt for salt water setups.

 

[crsublette]

Now the local fish guy is saying to use freshwater salt formulated for ponds and not marine salt for salt water setups.

Now, it is true that marine salt for coral reef aquariums will have extra compounds in it. Not for sure what "freshwater salt formulated for ponds" would be. I suppose the salt will be mixed in with some clay, or an anti-biotic or pro-biotic, along with some formulation of calcium carbonate.

Sounds like a selling gimmick.

Rather than getting those specialized salts, I would much rather individually add those products and it is likely cheaper this way. Also, you know what you are putting into the water. I am not entirely confident that the "ingridient list" on these specialized salt products actually disclose all of the material in the product.

 

[crsublette]

Don't over think it.

ppt = parts per thousandth

1 ppt = 1 / 1000 which is 0.001. So, move decimal point to two to the right, which converts 0.001 to 0.10%. So, 1 ppt = 0.10%

Convert 0.30% to decimal by moving the point two to the left = 0.003. And this in a fraction is 3 / 1000, which is 3 ppt. So, 0.30% = 3 ppt

Basic math. :cheerful:

 

[crsublette]

To simply put it, percent is units of X per units of Y. In our context, we are talking concentration in terms of weight.

When converting percent to decimal, then you move the point two to the left, which is: 1% = .01 = 1/100. So, to be more precise, percent is simply units of X weight units per 100 weight units of Y.

Now lets critically apply this to determine concentration measurements in terms of weight.

0.10% of water salinity is 0.10 weight units of salt per 100 weight units of water. In other words, { 0.10 salt weight units / ( 100 weight units per water weight units ) } . So, in case you don't remember math class, when the denominator is a fraction, break it down by multiplying the numerator by the reciprocal of the denominator.

So... 0.10 * ( water weight units / 100 weight units )

Lets say "weight units" = "pounds"

Now, we need the weight units of our pond's water capacity. 1 gallon of water (not boiling) = approximately 8.345 pounds at 39.2*F (when water is the heaviest depending on pollution and other variables)

So... 0.10 water salinity * ( 8.345 pounds / 100 pounds ) = 0.008345 pounds of salt required to obtain 0.10% salinity in 1 gallon of water. Since there is 16 ounces per pound, multiply 0.008345 by 16.

Which gives us...

0.134 ounces of salt to obtain 0.10% salinity in 1 gallon of water OR 1.34 ounces of salt to obtain 0.10% salinity in 10 gallons of water

Or....

Simply just use a Salinity Calculator. :claphands:

 

[Sharon Goode]

Waterbug I caught my favorite four fish and moved them inside the barn for the winter.....I don't know who was the more surprised, me or the first fish I caught.....granted they are moving a lot slower now it is 23 here tonight and will be back in the 60s on Friday. What a bummer........... still have my pump running in the deeper end, but will cut it off tomorrow.