Soil Too Rocky For Shelves?

[griss]

Hi all, new to the forum, but not new to ponds/aquariums. Sorry for the long first post.

We are in the process of completely rebuilding our old pond to make it a bit larger, deeper and improve the visual looks.

Anyway, many moons ago, we built our first pond without doing any research and did EVERYTHING wrong as far as giving us the ability to make it look nice. It worked functionally, but we were never happy with the looks. A recent liner leak (unable to locate the leak) gave us the drive to upgrade/improve.

One of the things we did wrong was not to make any shelves/tiers. The vertical walls were just straight up and down (okay slight angle) from top to bottom.

Anyway, we hired a friend of our son in law and daughter (he’s in landscaping, but has never built a pond) to dig out the pond with a mini excavator. However, once he started trying to make shelves/tiers along the sides the ground is all rock and the shelves/tiers simply crumbled. So, we are left with a larger version of the whole from the previous pond:-(

mom wondering if we can use cinder blocks and backfill to create shelves/tiers PRIOR to putting underpayment and the liner in? Has anyone ever done this before? Any thought, suggestions, guidance or other ideas how to do this?

Thanks in advance,

George

 

[griss]

That should be, “I’m wondering” in the last paragraph, not, “mom.” lol stupid auto correct.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! Please post some pictures for context.

Are you rebuilding in the same spot as the old pond, or completely digging a new one from scratch?

 

[Jhn]

Yes, you can use cinderblocks to build shelves, etc. just need to put rebar in it and fill with concrete. @GBBUDD built a good size vertical wall out of cinderblock or some type of block I believe like 6’ tall to hold back dirt by his patio.

 

[Mmathis]

Yes, you can use cinderblocks to build shelves, etc. just need to put rebar in it and fill with concrete. @GBBUDD built a good size vertical wall out of cinderblock or some type of block I believe like 6’ tall to hold back dirt by his patio.

I did something similar, but also added a collar. But our soil is clay with a high water table....

 

[j.w]

@griss

 

[addy1]

Welcome to our forum!

 

[griss]

Hi guys,

sorry for the delayed response. We decided early today to just jump into the project. We’ve got the first layer laid out and back filled and started on the second level. I’ll take and post pictures tomorrow. Been a long day and at our age, we’re a bit sore and exhausted.

thanks for all the feedback and responses.

 

[griss]

@Mmathis we took out the old pond and stream that was above it and are enlarging (deeper and larger) the pond and just putting in a waterfall instead of a stream.

 

[GBBUDD]

welcome to the forum
Just remember cinderblocks have no side sheer/ strength they are a vertical strength. they are for weight sitting on them. rebar imbedded and filled with concrete is almost a must for a retaining wall with any serious pressures. My pond it right at 6 feet deep and I definitely over built the wall but I have learned long ago and I had this saying everywhere around my Business …….Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to do it again...... Trust me when I do build something the last thing I ever want to do is tear it apart down the road it's usually a bear

My build you might be interested in starts here ,,,,,, https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/going-for-it-phase-one-12-000-gallon-pond.22563/page-4

 

[poconojoe]

You said you had a leak in your previous pond.
I will mention liner materials since you seem to be a bit new at this. No disrespect, I just want you to learn from my mistakes.

I know from (a bad) experience to not skimp on the very basic part of a pond build. The liner. Do not fall for the inexpensive pvc liners sold at many of the big box stores.

The liner of choice is EPDM. EPDM, with a proper underlayment will last for many years if installed properly. A PVC liner will fail in a few months. They get brittle and rupture very easily.

There is a second choice which is HDRPE, but make sure it has the "R" which is for reinforced.

 

[griss]

Thanks again for all the feedback.

The leak in the old pond was surely created due to a couple of factors.
1. Due to the previous mistake of not making shelve/tiers, we were unable to conceal the liner. Therefore is was exposed to everything.
2. We have a 140 pound, 16 month old Newfoundland puppy and our Daughter & Son-in-Law have a 70 pound, 15 month old Lab puppy. Both, got into the pond on several occassions. I'm pretty sure one of them punctured the liner trying to climb out of the vertical walls

I'm going to try to attach some pictures to this post, but I'm not familiar with this forum software, so may mess it up

If these stayed in order, the first picture is the previous pond with the liner & underlayment removed.

The following pictures (again if they stayed in order) are of our progress so far.

We've already got the 15' x 25' underlayment and @poconojoe 15' x 25' EPDM liner just waiting for us to finish building out the shell.

We've got 3,400-lbs of Grand Canyon Cobblers arriving Tuesday.

The waterfall filter will go somewhere on the opposite end of the skimmer box. Still trying to work out the details on that, so any suggestions will be greatly appreciated and welcome.

 

[GBBUDD]

all THOSE CONCRETE blocks have sharp edges that one the liner is installed the waters weight pushing on the liner it's very important to leave some slack where ever stretching" may occur. you'll want to ease those edges with a grinder and fill in those gaps a layer of sand on those shelves before you install the underlayment and liner. With a playful new foundlander I know how big they can get how heavy and how lethal those claws are when they step on a bare foot. I would seriously get my hands on very thick underlayment I used 8 oz non woven needle punch . if I had that size of a challenge I would step it up to like a 12oz That is some very tough stuff and buy the roll so you can cover the pond in one layer or if you must leave a good foot and a half to 2 foot overlap.

 

[GBBUDD]

I would also consider your bottom , by the time you get two layers of liner in that area and a layer of rubber there's not going to be much of that area left. It will probably be an area that just collects sludge over time

 

[griss]

all THOSE CONCRETE blocks have sharp edges that one the liner is installed the waters weight pushing on the liner it's very important to leave some slack where ever stretching" may occur. you'll want to ease those edges with a grinder and fill in those gaps a layer of sand on those shelves before you install the underlayment and liner. With a playful new foundlander I know how big they can get how heavy and how lethal those claws are when they step on a bare foot. I would seriously get my hands on very thick underlayment I used 8 oz non woven needle punch . if I had that size of a challenge I would step it up to like a 12oz That is some very tough stuff and buy the roll so you can cover the pond in one layer or if you must leave a good foot and a half to 2 foot overlap.

Thanks. Will look into adding a second underlayment. We were planning on adding a layer of sand already.