Still struggling to keep water clear

Discussion in 'Introductions' started by hdavid44, Mar 17, 2012.

  1. hdavid44

    hdavid44

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    Addy1: What is the value of pea gravel in the bog? Other than to make it more difficult to clean out the fish poop that lodges in the interstices? My bog has no bottom drain but I can reverse the pump with the siphon effect and get most of the bog liquids to get back to the big pond, then vacuum or pump out the gunk from the bog.....

    Is there any reason to go with one bacterial soup versus another? Do I need these microbe lifts at all?

    Tell me again why use bottom facing holes in the PVC pipe? Upward facing may reduce the probability of clogging especially if I just stick with lava rocks and sponge material and no pea gravel?

    Do you see anything wrong with trying this first before I dump in pea gravel?

    harry
     
    hdavid44, Mar 19, 2012
    #21
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  2. hdavid44

    addy1 water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins Moderator

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    I have a drain in my bog, sort of, it is the piping that feeds the bog. We have emptied it twice to work on the piping. No muck came out. Mainly for Harry I was thinking if his bog is like a second small pond i.e. no pea gravel, but plants and some filter material, the debris will settle to the bottom. My deck ponds get a layer of muck in them that I just vacuum out.

    If mine ever decides to clog up, which I don't think it will, we can open the ball valve stir the gravel or use a garden hose to push water from the top towards the bottom to flush the gravel. I used to do that with my mini bogs (whiskey barrels) filters I had on one of my arizona ponds, back flush the gravel, bottom drain in the barrel to let the dirty water out.

    A bog / plant filter can be however you make it. I put my piping with slots facing down, with my pea gravel did not want to have to dig up those pipes, (2.5 feet down) to dig out pea gravel that might clog up the holes. Without pea gravel, if you are doing lava rocks, sponge material, plants, you don't even really need bottom piping. Just have your water run from the one end through the media, plants lava rock etc on its way to the pond. My small ponds get a lot of settled muck on the bottom of them, I just clean them out once a year. They make great plant filters for the big pond.

    Try adding stuff to your bog, plants etc then you can decide if you want to go the pea gravel route. I chose the pea gravel because I wanted a well planted bog.

    I don't use any of the bacterial soup stuff. Some do and like it.
     
    addy1, Mar 19, 2012
    #22
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  3. hdavid44

    mario

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    What sort of pump are you guys using that allows you to run 24/7 and not notice an electrical bill spike (or do you pay so much in electricity that +/-$100 isn't noticable?
    I ask because one of the recommanded pumps http://www.aquacave.com/Sequence-Primer-7200-SW-Water-Pump-P503.aspx seems to draw 539Watts. So unless I've screwed up somewhere: .539 KW/hr x 24 hours x 30 days x $.15 KWhr = $58.21
     
    mario, Mar 25, 2012
    #23
  4. hdavid44

    hdavid44

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    Mario: Your math is correct. In the East the cost/kwh is more like 20-25 cents/kwh....

    After reading all the helpful posts on this forum I decided to use the big filter and waterfall for "son et lumiere" purposes and solve my water clarity problem by other means.

    I have fired up a very small pump to move water through my bog -- almost no plumbing, no skippy filter with vortices, etc, no pea gravel. Just running water slowly across big sponges and bags of lava rocks. This has already done wonders for the water clarity and I will give it more time before taking further steps to enhance bog efficiency.

    Now that the fish can see each other I am hoping that the koi are stimulated to "go forth and multiply". If they do not I shall be confirmed in my suspicions about their gender preferences.


    Harry
     
    hdavid44, Mar 25, 2012
    #24
  5. hdavid44

    koiguy1969 GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!

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    mario...539 watts for only 6600 gph doesnt sound like a good power rating...you could run 3 laguna 4200 gph pumps and use 540 watts, max,and have 12,600 gph of flow... and the purchase price for all 3, would be comparable to the price listed in your link.
    pumps and filtration should run 24/7. i live in the east, run multiple pumps and it costs about $20 a month.
     
    koiguy1969, Mar 25, 2012
    #25
  6. hdavid44

    sissy sissy

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    wow never heard of a pump that uses that many watts for only that much gph ,I'm guessing they don't sell many of them .Most pump manufacturers are reducing cost on running there pumps so they can still sell them .Problem with that is that some of them are not looking at longevity of the pump .I was reading on consumer affairs sight that a lot of the name brand pumps now are not getting very good ratings .Either because they don't last or because they do not meet the electric use ratings and even on there warranty programs .I was amazed at how many are on the list .I think I will stay with my cheap harbor freight one and my lowes one .And funny is the ratings are good on them ,just a few small issues that I have not even run into .I guess it all comes down to the fact that electric rates will continue to go up and there is no changing that .But if I buy a pump I would surely want it to last and also not want to have to ship it somewhere to be repaired and wait to get it back ,fish don't wait and water quality does not wait either .
     
    sissy, Mar 25, 2012
    #26
  7. hdavid44

    j.w I Love my Goldies

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    Sissy do you have that link on which pumps don't last very long and which do? I know you said Consumer Affairs but how do I find it there?
     
    j.w, Mar 25, 2012
    #27
  8. hdavid44

    mario

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    Now you have me thinking that I should look at new pump.
    My pond is about 2200Gal, and I'm using a pump that I bought about ~12 years ago, but never fired up, that is until I built my current pond (about 1.5 seasons ago).
    I'm looking at the specs for my Little Giant 3000Gph, and it looks like I'm sucking 750watts worth of electricity.
    That's 750 watts for only 3000 gallons per hour.
    I don't run my pump 24/7, which I probably should. If I did, it looks like I would be spending about $47/month if electricity was at $.15/KWH.
    At this rate, if you have any suggestions about a better submersible pump, please let me know. Even if the pump is few hundred bucks, If I can save $15-20 per month, the cost of the new pump will pay for itself in a year or so.
     
    mario, Mar 25, 2012
    #28
  9. hdavid44

    sissy sissy

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    You have to get the consumer affairs book and my neighbor and i share the cost on it and it gives you the online version which the book allows you to go on .Not sure if you can get the info free or not ,never even thought about it .I know you can't copy it because i tried and it won't let you it just refers you back to the book
     
    sissy, Mar 25, 2012
    #29
  10. hdavid44

    koiguy1969 GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!

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    like i said in my post above...LAGUNA pumps are hard to beat for low power draw and good head heights. a 4200gph laguna draws 170 watts...3 or 4 year warranty. under $200 on ebay from webbs or countryfishgirl. heres a link: http://www.ebay.com/...=item53ec2ad4e7
    laguna pumps have a computerized circuit that controls power flow for optimum efficiency and performance.
     
    koiguy1969, Mar 25, 2012
    #30
  11. hdavid44

    mario

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    Yeap, looks like I have some work to do.
    A quick google search based on koiguy's Laguna pump listing shows that if I went with this Laguna Max-Flo 2900 GPH Pump, it would give me almost the same flow as my current Little Giant 3000 unit, but only use up 130Watts to my Little Giant's 750Watt.

    Now I have more work to do before purchase.
    Things like:
    1. How large of a pump should I get for my 2200Gal pond with a single waterfall?
    2. Can I run the pump on it's side since I'm using this Savio - SkimmerFilters? Not sure if I can fit Laguna pump laying down.
    3. Is Laguna pump strong enough to run thru 25' of 1.5" PVC pipe with about 5' rise, AND a Tetra - BP2500 Pressurized Filter?
    4. What else should I be thinking about?
     
    mario, Mar 25, 2012
    #31
  12. hdavid44

    koiguy1969 GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!

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    laguna makes a pump for skimmer boxes...heres a link: http://www.ebay.com/...=item35b05fc865
    this may be more to your liking or needs... but i believe your can remove their other pumps from the cages as well.
    i am ordering a LAGUNA pump as we speak...just not sure what size yet... i'm getting it as a gift. that i get to pick...lucky me!
    i would look on ebay...
     
    koiguy1969, Mar 25, 2012
    #32
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  13. hdavid44

    mario

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    I'm going to get my sh*t together and start a new thread with few pictures of what I have and see if you "water bugs" can help me determine which pump to get, and if I should have everything go thru my filter, or if I should let some water go directly to my waterfall, or maybe even just let it go back into the pond at water level. I'm sure I screwed up in the design of my pond in more ways than one. :-(
     
    mario, Mar 25, 2012
    #33
  14. hdavid44

    sissy sissy

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    seems like consumer affairs wants the year the pump was built and the codes on it .I can understand the year as it seems newer pumps have to be more energy efficient than older models as of 2 years ago they raise the standard on them .So guessing that means newer ones are better ,by government standards
     
    sissy, Mar 25, 2012
    #34
  15. hdavid44

    koiguy1969 GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!

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    koiguy1969, Mar 25, 2012
    #35
  16. hdavid44

    sissy sissy

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    The more air you get into your pond the better and that helps keep a pond clearer .Thats why i run a fountain head and a aerator in my pond
     
    sissy, Mar 25, 2012
    #36
  17. hdavid44

    viggen

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    the reason that Sequence pump sucks so much juice with that type of flow is that it's designed for high head situations which something like a Laguna4200 isn't designed to push. If you need to push water through a canister filter (Advantage, Aquadyne & the list goes on) or up 5-20 feet vertically you need something that has a lot of power.

    If you have lower head pressure then something like the laguna 4200 will do the trick. I have one & it's a great powerfull pump..... I also have it's evil twin called "Red Dragon" which many use in their aquariums. My Red Dragon 12m3 pushes slightly more water vs a LAguna 4200 & pulls around 120w..... I purchased it as a scratch & dent piece, didn't pay close to retail!!!!

    If you want a external pump I would consider Performance Pro products. Seems to be more effecient vs Sequence & also has the primer basket & all that stuff.... seems to be the pump of choice in the koi pond world. I have 1 of their performance pro A2-1/3-63 which pulls 450w max & 440w at 6ft of head. Mine runs through a Advantage bead filter so it probably sees 6-10 ft of head thus probably under 400w of power. Just started the pump today..... also have two of their A1/3-56.... not looking forward to me electric bill when all 3 pumps are running...... need solar

    http://www.performancepropumps.com/artesian2_curves.htm
     
    viggen, Mar 26, 2012
    #37
  18. hdavid44

    taherrmann4 Tmann

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    I have the sequence pump with the primer basket and have been very satisfied with it. I just looked at my electric bill and having my pump running 24/7 for 23 days of this cycle my total electric was only $104, the month before it was $112 without the pump running at all. So that is why I say that I don't even notice it. The max draw is 537 watts but I would be surprised if that is what it is actually using, I should get one of those testers and see what the actual draw is.
     
    taherrmann4, Mar 26, 2012
    #38
  19. hdavid44

    sissy sissy

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    Lowes here had those testers on sale
     
    sissy, Mar 26, 2012
    #39
  20. hdavid44

    johnnyi

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    Mario,

    Here are the performance charts on Laguna pumps:

    http://www.azponds.com/laguna_maxflo_chart.htm

    The models are the older ones. There are newer, even more efficient models just being released - I have the 2900 and the newer 1348 (or something like that). I have 2" piping that only rises 2.5 feet and I get a lot of water going through, but this style pump will loose a lot going 5' up and 25' distance. Through 1.5" pipe that might add up to 8' of head.

    John
     
    johnnyi, Mar 30, 2012
    #40
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