Adding fish to a frog-dominated pond

[Mr. Green Frog]

Excavated a new pond last year in my back yard. Shaped like a kidney bean, but roughly 25' x 35'. Roughly 2 to 3 feet in shallow end depending on current water level, and around 10 feet on deep end where pump is. Entire pond has stacked, hand-placed "601" b, c, and d limestone rocks, ranging from 6" to 24", with some being even larger. Floor and walls are stacked. Ground is clay. Pump is in a 4' x 4' pocket/sump in bottom of deep end (about 12' deep) and is still clay in pocket.

Few frogs late last year, but now have a male green frog (female too) resident and numerous Gray frogs with Cope's variants, Mountain Chorus, Tree Frogs, etc. (whatever is local, they've appeared minus bullfrogs). At night during breeding, I've probably had over 20 sets of frog eyes watching from the gaps in the rock stackings which they seem to love, and the dominant males call out from Lilly pads, nearby trees, rock outcroppings, etc., all night. Tadpoles were in the upper hundreds but have been thinning out as I'm guessing the green frogs are eating them. Largest tadpoles are just now growing tiny back legs.

Anyhow, noticed snails have been introduced (guessing eggs or snail hitched a ride on a migrating frog) and have lots of diving beetles, a water striders, etc.. No mosquitoes nor larva since having pump run 24/7 to recirc. and dump on surface, mimicking a small water fountain feature.

Currently only recirculating water from a 4500 gph pump back to surface via 2" pvc to provide oxygen. Water is fairly clear until heavy rains. Have 55 gallon food-grade drums I'll convert into a filter for pump soon.

I would like to add a few fish to keep the snails in check (once filter is finished) and help keep floor clean. But don't want to add fish that'll hinder the frog population or cause an imbalance. Currently LOVE seeing all these frogs hanging out, but definitely need some bottom dwellers and maybe something like fathead minnows too.

In Northern OH and weather is all over the map nowadays, but low teens in winter is common and rarely sub zero. 10' deep section won't freeze, but need a hardy fish. Idea is to run pump 24/7 365 and possibly snake some heat tape into drum and insulate exterior.

Ideas on fish? Would LOVE bigger fish but don't want to ruin frog's hook up spots nor scare them from leaving tadpoles. So small fish and bottom dwellers. If smaller fish get eaten on occasion, not concerned. Photo was after a rain. Have vids of frogs but loo large to upload atm.

 

[Tula]

Welcome Mr. Green Frog I'm a fellow buckeye, but in the southwestern , Cincinnati area.

Are you looking for ornamental fish or some native fish. Shubunkin and comets are very pretty and quite hardy

 

[Lisak1]

I think you should consider the question from the other perspective - that is the balance that the fish will ADD to the pond, not take away from it. With the size and depth you have, you definitely have room for both.

I agree with @Tula on goldfish or shubunkins as a good hardy choice. Throw in a couple and watch them do their thing.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

Here's some pics I just took. Can you see the male Green frog in the rock before the close up pic? Got lucky with spotting him. Sometimes he'll respond and swim closer after mimicking his call. Think he's done mating atm so not getting overtly territorial. Other frog has a snail photo bombing it.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

So a gold fish type of fish? Are these shubunkin typical store fish or something you get from a private fishery?

Looking for native if possible. If bluegill weren't so hungry, would consider them.

Just starting to get random plant shoots growing underwater (amazing to see these random things just appear out of thin air; guessing frogs are carriers as I'm not close enough to a stream or lake) so more vegetation as time goes on and I can add more hiding places, logs, submerged pipe, washed no.8 stones, etc. so more hiding places then currently present.

Just tickled by the frogs everywhere, so bias is towards them. So many feral cats nearby, plus raccoons, etc. so these guys being safe and thriving in a hole I dug out is just too cool.

 

[Tula]

Well, you don't have to add any fish if you're happy with your frogs and other wild life. Ornamental fish such as goldfish are not considered native.

Not sure what state you live in but look at their Dept. of Natural Resources to see what types of fish would be native to your area. I think some type of minnow is native to most areas.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

NE Ohio east of Akron. Not in any city limits.

Originally planned on it being a small fish pond and would have been more open to variation including non native, but with all the amazing frogs that quickly moved in and hang out in perimeter trees and treat the rocks like condos, have shifted priorities towards keeping them around and any fish to be mild enough to cohabitate and be non invasive just to be safe.

One night there was around 6 different frog species calling out in a cascading fashion, seemingly on an endless loop. Just the coolest thing to see and hear. With all the encroachment and loss of habitat, just thrilled they get a reprieve and can just be frogs.

Anyhow, being hardy, able to tolerate the water (everything in there is rainwater and snow melt; do have excellent well water straight from the pump if needing to top off) with possible leaching of diminished limestone, and not too large if a school of them is around, plus a couple bottom feeders so maybe a few catfish.

Guess I'm leaning towards a minnow for a school swimmer type as they are small and hardy, so any suggestions on a catfish-type of fish that's hardy, for bottom feeding and snail clean up?

 

[TimsPond]

Mosquito fish are a hardy live breeder that can over winter in Ohio. They are similar to guppies, but not as colorful.

Also, White Mountain Cloud Minnows are an egg scatterer that can over winter in Ohio.

Both are small and should not predate on tadpoles, but will keep the pond mosquito free and will provide prey for your frogs.

 

[TimsPond]

Also, for bottom feeders, some have had success with Pepper Cories and Bristlenose Plecos.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

I'll look into those mosquito fish (remind me of a Platy) and minnows. Would definitely need hiding places for livebearers as I bet those baby fish are tasty!

Had aquarium plecos and never had luck keeping them alive. Can plecos tolerate this environment?

What other catfish species are good?

 

[zeuspaul]

I added some small fish ( blue killifish ) to one of my larger frog/wildlife ponds. They were supposed to leave the frogs alone. I wanted to use them for mosquito control. They ate all of the native tadpoles.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

Ended up getting about 2 dozen small minnows (about 2") and a dozen large ones (about 3 inches) for $10 from a local bait shop. Figure if they survive their entire life in a sink, breeding tub, etc., then survive the transport to the bait shop, and not have noticeable diseases or injury; you won't see any tougher fish out there. Took a 5 gallon with my own water and just had them drop directly from net vs. using their water to blend. Normally wouldn't do that for aquarium fish, but trying to minimize their water being added to the pond. About 5 were doa but rest seem to be doing OK and are hard to see as they hide constantly. The green frogs will jump out of the water if one gets too close, which is comical given the minnows are about the size of an older tadpole and the frogs are probably 1-2 years old. Water is pretty clear right now so everyone can see each other, and the green frogs (only frogs staying in the pond 24/7 right now) are remaining in their usual spots and a male has been trying to get a female to lay eggs again. Last egg batch put a 5 gallon bucket in and caught the eggs right as they unraveled, then keeping it on it's side but up against shore and handle weighted in place. Tadpoles mostly stay in it while still getting fresh water and w/o actually removing them. Dropped small amount of gravel in there and few food pellets. Pretty cool seeing them at that size (like a mechanical pencil tip) and consistently grow. Guessing I'll do this going forward to hopefully keep all of them from getting eaten if any more are laid. Other than gray frog tadpoles appearing on the lily pads now as tiny frogs, haven't seen any others make it, so guessing the green frogs got them.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

So probably 500+ minnow fry in there now. Judging by the varying sizes, at least one spawned the 1st week as there's some large babies now that are easy to spot from feet away and look like minnows. Then every other day, there's like a fresh batch of just created fry. Had no idea they bred that crazy fast or with such success.

 

[Faebinder]

It’s odd to hear someone make that deep of a pond (10’) and not want koi. Koi will eat your frogs. Only big bottom dwellers will not eat them.
Catfish or even an albino sturgeon is possible. Hi fin banded shark is possible too but needs pristine water. All 3 will likely leave your frogs alone.

 

[Mr. Green Frog]

Fish were an after thought for the pond and think the minnows fit the bill though will have to see how many grow.

I had no idea frogs would be showing up in masses to breed and live here either. I figured if ONE frog appeared, that'd be cool. Late last year had 4 juvenile frogs that overwintered here and were around in early spring and thought that was max occupancy. Earlier tonight, counted 82 sets of glowing frog eyes in grass canopies around pond banks, so was way off on how many would call this pond and it's surrounding trees home.

Anyhow, just wanted a pond and when I was digging it, wanted a deep end below the frost line to run a pump all year and enough dug out I wouldn't be thinking "wish I went deeper when I had the chance."

If frogs never appeared, would have gone with bluegill or similar, and maybe a couple catfish.

But walking the banks of your own pond and having these frogs everywhere, often calling out to each other, coming out of trees to mate in it and leave their eggs then watchong them unravel and swim around, then grow legs and show up on leaves of surrounding bushes; using the gaps in the stacked rocks like little apartments, or eating worms you throw towards them, etc. has been the most satisfying experience.

Just had an idea for a pond and lo and behold it ended up being a little paradise for these guys. And just tonight, started hearing Blanchard's Cricket frogs nearby. Those aren't even supposed to be around here anymore.

So yeah, no koi.