Bacteria recommendations

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You really are going overboard here with this pond. Slow down and stop messing with it and let it settle down and reach its own balance. You are constantly interfering with it, throwing everything off.

Please remove the corn. It's doing nothing but rotting in your pond and creating more contamination.

Back up and stop obsessing about this. If you give it a chance, your pond will mature and be very low maintenance. The more you mess with it, the longer that process will take.
 
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I skimmed the article from the link you posted. It recommends using gypsum. Please don't do that. It may be fine for a mud pond like they are talking about, but you probably won't like what it does to yours.

When our current pond was new, we had an unusually heavy rain and since our pond is cut into a hill and we hadn't gotten the drainage quite right, a lot of mud washed into the pond.

We read that gypsum would help to clear the muddy water. It didn't. It only made it worse. We had to completely drain the pond and start over.

Unless you like the look of a muddy pond, don't put gypsum in it.

If your pH actually is constantly climbing, your water has too little calcium. You can correct that by using calcium chloride. But from what you have posted, the pH hasn't gone over 9. Has that changed? If lack of calcium were the problem it would not stop there.

I know that you have crushed coral in the pond, but it is generally only helpful if your water is acidic. It doesn't dissolve in alkaline water, only when the pH drops below 7.

If you search calcium chloride in this site you can find threads about that here.

But I'm hesitant to post that and think you might just need to step back and leave the pond alone for a while.

Also, be aware of what type of pond, aquarium, or water keeping all those articles you are reading are referring to. What may work for one may not be very desirable for your pond.
 
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I'm going to respond to the last 3 at once here.

The mud was not just mud. It stunk so badly of rotten eggs it made me feel sick. Once it was disturbed, when I refilled the pond, I didn't want it to get in the water, so I vacuumed it all away.

The bog I didn't know wasn't actually working. When redoing the kitchen cabinets, I found the original owners pond book about their pond. While not completely informative, I did find out the bog should actually be like a second waterfall. It was barely a trickle. No visible water when looking at it. I did that freezing in the winter before starting up so I didn't kill the plants. I excavated through the 7 years of decay that had clogged it. Left the lowest portion alone because while slightly mucky, it was mostly just dirty looking water. That mud also did stink. Badly. I rinsed all of the pea gravel, cleaned the lava rocks. Made sure the bog didn't stink like that by disturbing the remaining stuff in quite a few spots and sniffing. Put it all back together while seeding it with cold weather bacteria right before I could turn the system back on. There was only one little spot I couldn't do because I ran out of cold weather. I didn't want to hurt the plants. I also found tons of dead root balls and bulbs that were just rotting. Now the plants have room to grow, and water is moving trough it to make a gentle waterfall. It's probably at 85%. I also found out there is a silt chimney, so I cleaned that out. This winter, I will clean that last section up. I did it per the design instructions in that pond book. I also found like 200 slugs and I think what was a bird or some other very small animal remains. Hiding in there. When I restored the pond, I cleaned, but because I didn't know very much about bogs other than not to mess with them unless you have to, and I didn't know very much about plants/thinning them, I only cleaned out what I could see on top. Thinking anything else would decompose and filter through. The water that comes out of the bog is crystal clear now too. I can fill a jar and leave it for a day and there is no sediment. So other than thinning the last plant group because it doesn't seem to be growing well compared to the others, I don't see needing to do anything else to the bog.

We only added a few fish last year. A few comets, shubunkins and 4 koi. Thinking that would be it. A raccoon got one of the koi. Injured another. Most of the comets disappeared over winter. I think the racoon got two of the shubunkins. They were too curious and would come right up to the edge if they saw something. So we only had 7 fish. 3 comets, 1 shubunkin, 3 koi coming out of winter.

This year we settled on 14 fish total. The pond held 17 koi for about 20 years for the original owner/builder. So we decided on a few less total and half goldfish. We now have 11. The less than forthcoming seller we had been using, said he quarantined them. It was more like 24 hrs. We now have a seller that actually does a minimum of two weeks depending on how relaxed the fish seem, and we will replace the fish that passed eventually. Bringing us to 14. Half koi, half goldfish.

I would have kept the new fish longer before adding them. They need 2 weeks post shipping before even exposing them to a pond. We trusted him, acclimated the fish to our pond and let them go. 1 died from infection that lead to kidney failure (dropsy), 1 from a fungus, 1 starved. I caught them each when I noticed them isolating. Neither lived longbenough to complete treatment. The one that wouldn't eat, ate nothing offered. The flukes had already been eradicated before adding new fish-this was a best guess but Praziquantel ended the flashing and darting.

Seeing a fungus in the pond had grown so much on the little one, sluggish/isolated behavior in a few others, and unable to catch most of the fish because they can dart into the rocks, we had to treat the pond. As they grow big enough to catch without killing them from stress in the chase, we will use a hospital tank. The comets are small and our shubunkin is stunted. The comets we got were practically fry still and the shubunkin hasn't grown in the past year. The fins have, but it looks like it should be in an aquarium. They're super fast. And have 40 places to hide or more.

My ph has gone above 9. Right now the only thing keeping it where it is, is baking soda. It's able to act as an acid or a base neutralizer, it was available and it's holding the line for a moment. But it is temporary. The ph rose to 9.5.

The reason for the coral plus cracked corn is to increase calcium and CO2. If the coral is sitting on the cracked corn, it will dissolve. I forgot in my notes it says to use powdered dolomite to bring levels of calcium and magnesium up first. Then longer-term, the source leeches into the water And is the coral chunks + limestone or dolomite chunks. I jotted that in the margins.

I haven't added any of those yet. Only baking soda and continuing with clay because the fish LOVE clay days. They getbright to foraging and don'teven bother coming for pellets until the evening feeding.

I'm trying to make the game plan and then execute it so I can get back to enjoying the pond. None of this works if the base of the ecosystem is broken. Hence wanting to seed good bacteria to boost it. The speed up is because I don't want my fish weak and susceptible to anything else. I also want them to have peace instead of me doing stuff all the time. I mean they don't scatter when skimming the top or bottom anymore. My neighbor has some massive evergreens and I get tons of debris every time the wind blows, so I have to use a fine net under the waterfall where it gets pushed to the bottom To get pine needles, pine cones, sometimes moss/fungus and even whole small branches when wind is high.

I do not want to use gypsum. The article makes that sound like a bad idea.

I hope that answered or helped elaborating.

I also woke up to a 2" water level drop, so now I have to chase water loss. I swear Murphy is staying at my house making sure their law is upheld. Fingers crossed it's just in the waterfall.
 
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Here is where I started last year and just want it to be done to monthly maintenance. I repaired everything and cleaned the 1ft+ of trash and rot and such out. The design is amazing and brilliant. The previous owners let it fall to ruin. Also, they left 3 fish in there I had a local come rehome! It will be 1 year since completed in July. 1 year with the first fish at the end of July. This will help hopefully show the background of this situation.
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I'm sorry, but if my pH were constantly climbing as your apparently is, I would want to stop that increase now instead of waiting for who knows how long for that coral to work and simply watching the pH get higher every day.

Just my opinion.

It's a very simple fix. Just dissolve some calcium chloride in a bucket of water and pour it in your pond.
 
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I'm sorry, but if my pH were constantly climbing as your apparently is, I would want to stop that increase now instead of waiting for who knows how long for that coral to work and simply watching the pH get higher every day.

Just my opinion.
That's why I added baking soda. It's amphoteric. Meaning it will buffer acids and bases. My ph is holding in the 8s now. When it climbed really high, I got it back to a reasonable range. Baking soda is not a permanent solution. I want a long lasting one.

I'm new to ponds. Not to basic chemistry knowledge. Elsewhere I got told to use pH down products like this is a couple hundred gallon aquarium which are just acids that get buffered and require regular applications, might as well use the vinegar trick every afternoon. Another told me to build a carbon dioxide injector. So if the problem is CO2 shortage due to rapid spring plant growth, I can use a very small amount of rapidly decomposing material to produce CO2 until no longer necessary/there's enough decomp on it's own. No risk of over doing it as long as you calculate the right number of grams.

The problem being the non existence of beneficial bacteria. Without them, no decomp and no processing of excess ammonia beyond plant usage into nitrate. It's been 6 weeks and no new bacteria has grown to useful levels. My two littlest fish, are still showing signs of ammonia irritation by the middle-end of the week. Also why higher ph is undesirable. Hence the first question being about a product to reintroduce beneficial bacteria while also asking about the fact that this duo includes dinitrification bacteria because I don't want to cause my plants to die back given 50% of the filtration is the bog garden itself.

Nothing so far has helped except the advice to bind the ammonia to make it safe to give bacteria more food. This was my initial reaction. I am hoping I was simply too impatient . I will try that again for more than 3 weeks.

Maybe it's just too complicated to get the situation across clearly on a forum.
 

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Hence the first question being about a product to reintroduce beneficial bacteria while also asking about the fact that this duo includes dinitrification bacteria because I don't want to cause my plants to die back given 50% of the filtration is the bog garden itself.
Fritz-zyme is the truly live nitrifying bacteria you can purchase if you feel it’s necessary.

Also, that Microbe lift isn’t the right stuff, not sure why you are concerned about denitrifying bacteria, As denitrifying bacteria occur in areas of low oxygen or anoxic zones, and this bacteria breaks down nitrates, so this bacteria would be competing with your plants for available nitrates. Ammonia while consumed by some plants (not all) isn’t the preferred nutrient source, nitrates are, plants will consume both.
 
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My water conditioner for the tap does treat ammonia too. I'll try that way. I don't think it overdosed because the fish would probably have died with everything else. I was scared to use it at all because of how many times I've seen people post about all their fish panicking or gasping at the surface or just dead when they came out to check. It did wipe out all of the algae. Turned it to water dust. That's not even growing again yet.

I'm just left with a massive ph swing from day to night. Not a crash because kh is about the only thing that's good right now. But I'm ph swinging .6-.7 today. And every 6 or so days, it's going up .1 even at first thing in the morning. So the ph is just steadily rising.

This article helped me understand how they manage large acreage ponds. So I did the calculations and am going to do the same for my pond to make better conditions for the fish to heal and stay so healthy hopefully no more parasites nor fungal outbreaks occur going forward. In learning about koi and goldfish, they can coexist with the natural bad bacteria, fungus, and even parasites when they're healthy. Apparently, mine are not which means the water is not healthy. They're doing better, but still not acting normal for this temperature. They were more active at 50 than nearing 70. They are still often. And the ph swing is too big. The stability is just gone.

People don't realize that EVERY POND EVERY. has parasites and bacteria.

What prevents fish from becoming ill is their imuneststem . Which mainly is the slime coat on them.

Take a flash light with a thin beam and shine it into the top of the pond and see all the
. It stunk so badly of rotten eggs
That smell is hydrogen sulfide far more deadly that ammonia levels generally get in a pond.
CO2 until no longer necessary/there's enough decomp on it's own. No risk of over doing it as long as you calculate the right number of grams.
co2 addition to a body of water can certainly be added to where there is too much and can easily kill off everything. I used co2 in my planted aquarium for years
I was simply too impatient . I will try that again for more than 3 week
Depending on fish load feeding,type of food, weather and design of the pond it can take a year or more before a pond becomes balanced.
It's been 6 weeks and no new bacteria has grown to useful levels
Bacteria is not visible to the naked eye how can you say no new bacteria has grown? This has been an unusual year for our ponds. After a very mild winter to where many of the usual items like string algae dies off. Many had an abundance come spring time. and then instead of the nice warm weather where our plants take off growing eating up the excess nutrients this year the spring was incredibly cool and the plants are not taking off like the usually do.

There is no add this and all will be great. What works for one pond more than likely will have the same results in an other.

I have been experimenting with Beneficial bacteria, after talking to a breeder of koi they convinced me there maybe more to the argument than is widely believed here. While I agree lIVE bacteria is not as easy to bottle up and ship out to stores. But what i do believe after being around a buddy of mine who use to make his own Beer. His adding yeast to the septic system by dumping the left overs down the drain MORE than fed the bacteria within the tank and if you got within 50 feet of the vent pipe you would get a wiff you'd never forget.
Point is i have been using Aquascapes BB and i can see a clear difference. Is it bacteria in a powder form or is it a boost to multiply what is already in the pond i have no idea. But what i do see is the colors of the rocks as they are not all uniformly the same color i can see the conglomerate chips in the boulders etc.
 
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It's been 6 weeks and no new bacteria has grown to useful levels.
How in the world do you know that?

Elsewhere I got told to use pH down products like this is a couple hundred gallon aquarium
Sounds like you've been on koiphen. That would be both time consuming and expensive.

You are definitely not the typical first time pond owner. You started with a mess not of your own making and clearly have made great strides to get it cleaned up and back in working order. Definitely not an easy task.

That horrible smell you talked about - that was the hydrogen sulfide being released. Deadly to fish and to humans too, if it's too strong. That's why the advice to proceed slowly on a pond filled with debris - remove a layer at a time to expose the under layer to the water, wait a bit and then remove more muck. Much safer that way.

I don't know how to else to pull you back from the edge here - you seem too intent on making this into a science project instead of a fun hobby. All the talk of CO2 and the correct number of grams and rotting corn mixed with dolomite and what else? Just stop. Let the pond be. Just let it be. We do love simple here. I mentioned koiphen as a bit of a joke earlier - the folks there are true koi keepers. The pond exists for the koi. They keep a very different kind of pond - no plants, no rocks, just fish and water. Their approach would be very different than what you will find here.

Patience is indeed the best tool in your toolbox right now.

I'm curious - you mentioned several times that the pond construction strikes you as being particularly brilliant - it inspired you to keep the pond. What do you mean by that?
 
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If your fish are reacting negatively and your ammonia is bound, it would seem they must be reacting to something other than ammonia. A level of .25 ammonia should not elicit any reaction from the fish and many fish live in that level of ammonia with no harmful effects.

Could they be reacting to the constantly changing pH?
 
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Fritz-zyme is the truly live nitrifying bacteria you can purchase if you feel it’s necessary.

Also, that Microbe lift isn’t the right stuff, not sure why you are concerned about denitrifying bacteria, As denitrifying bacteria occur in areas of low oxygen or anoxic zones, and this bacteria breaks down nitrates, so this bacteria would be competing with your plants for available nitrates. Ammonia while consumed by some plants (not all) isn’t the preferred nutrient source, nitrates are, plants will consume both.
Thank you. I will find that then. Maybe it would reestablish on it's own, but a boost won't hurt anything. My littlest fish are showing me they're uncomfortable within 4 days of a water exchange (I do max of 20% and always use conditioner). I'd rather 'waste money' to buy them comfort a little faster than just leave them to be unwell because I don't completely have the hang of water keeping. I shouldn't have gotten the fish yet. But they're here and I want to do anything I can to make this pond a happy peaceful home for them.
 
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If your fish are reacting negatively and your ammonia is bound, it would seem they must be reacting to something other than ammonia. A level of .25 ammonia should not elicit any reaction from the fish and many fish live in that level of ammonia with no harmful effects.

Could they be reacting to the constantly changing pH?
I just started binding instead of water exchanges from the suggestion. It will probably take time for them to heal. So it is hard to tell and likely a combination of both irritants. And with the babies, they're more vulnerable to everything anyways. All the fish seem sluggish in the late afternoon and that's likely the ph swing.

I started with the dolomite powder today. My ph in the late afternoon/evening was only 8.4. Much better than 8.9 yesterday! So as long as the morning is 8-8.2 like usual, and afternoon/evening tops 8.4 again, I may have solved that unstable swing. If a month goes by the same, I will consider that official.
 
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One other thing. Whenever you get new fish, you should always quarantine them yourself. It makes no difference if the dealer has quarantined them. That only means that they had no reaction to his water and what might be living in it. Your water won't be the same and there are likely different organisms living in yours that may be harmful to the new fish.

I'm on the extreme end when it comes to quarantining new fish. I keep them in a separate set up for 6 months. That gives me plenty of time to watch them and see if anything goes awry.

After a couple of months, if all is well, I will put one or two of my pond fish in with the new ones. That way the new fish will be exposed to the organisms that my fish have become accustomed to and my fish will be exposed to whatever the new fish may have brought with them, but are immune to. And I don't risk my entire herd, only one or two fish.

Keeping new fish separate gives me the opportunity to treat them if a problem shows up, without exposing my existing fish or having to treat the entire pond. Some folks also do preventative treatments during quarantine.

I feel it may be less stressful on the new fish as well. They only have to get adjusted to a relatively small area and different water conditions, without also having to deal with all those other fish.
 
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How in the world do you know that?


Sounds like you've been on koiphen. That would be both time consuming and expensive.

You are definitely not the typical first time pond owner. You started with a mess not of your own making and clearly have made great strides to get it cleaned up and back in working order. Definitely not an easy task.

Patience is indeed the best tool in your toolbox right now.

I'm curious - you mentioned several times that the pond construction strikes you as being particularly brilliant - it inspired you to keep the pond. What do you mean by that?
I have absolutely been there and read many of their threads, and locals have had my ear, and I research everything, deeply. I've always been an information seeker. I've even been on Google scholar reading studies and thesis papers. I do enjoy reasearch. So this is fun/interesting, but I have a whole life and property and a house to finish restoring and I have to work. So...I need reliable long term solutions. I also see the markup on pond vs aquarium products that do the exact same thing.

I think I fall between the two groups. I want solutions as seen in natural environments, but also my pond is for the fish first. I have carefully selected each one. I'm an animal person and take my obligation to a living creature quite seriously. I also want to use old time tested methods, not expensive products. Though I do like erring on the side of caution, so I will probably reseed my filters every fall and late spring, but I will wait for my testing ammonia levels to prove this method of yours/yalls out. If I see no issues arise, I can save my $25-40. The use of limestone/dolomite is really old and still practiced. I can't help but wonder if they just tasted the water way back? Let it evaporate from a cup? That part I am curious about and will probably continue to research water tests history because again, I like it.

About the bacteria. I have been testing everyday or every other day when super busy. Since the treatment and those massive, massive water changes, the only thing changing has been ammonia slowly creeping up. I gave it couple few weeks dumping water conditioner in every few days and the ammonia just kept creeping, so I started water changes. If there was any bacteria, it should have started eating. Showing some level of nitrite then nitrate. Nothing except after sinking the snowflake and feathery mares tale to the bottom and I think that nitrate was from the little bit of clay on their roots now thatbits been nothing since again. I think I sterilized the whole pond. I can't wait until next year when they're bigger and can be caught. I will treat them in the hospital tank and keep them there long enough to starve out whatever was in the pond! Hopefully they're just healthy so any visitors don't bother them. This was a nightmare! Is still ongoing hot mess of stress. At least I found out my leak was actually aggressive wind literally blowing the water over the waterfall liner and I'm not losing water now.

We bought the house in 2022. I was going to route the runoff from the roof and use the pond as a drainage solution to maximize the protection of our foundation by poppingin some holes to the bottom, filling it with rock then dirt over it and rip out that edging. When I cleared the debris to survey the work required (3 truckloads hauled off before the pics I posted), and saw how the builders thought out every single detail, I became a giddy fan. Their methods were not just the pond design, but the entire landscape around it. The weir drains to water and fertilize this awesome floating cloud maple, and a wisteria & Japanese maple tree further down. I am just using a super fine net, but eventually when I get my pond vacuum (which is super exciting), I noticed the discharge hoses without an extension are exactly the length +1 ft to water and feed the surrounding garden beds and the large maple you would sit under (this is a recent realization from having the measurements from my drain plan and finding that pond book in the cabinet over the fridge). The overflow when it rains crazy, goes to a bush with a root system that keeps soil from being washed back into the pond. It's the only spot where it's possible (the only reason the was mud where I found it is because plant matter sat so long it decomposed clogging everything up). The trees the pond keeps nurtured were planted to have their branches meet over the pond and provide a lovely shaded space for chairs to enjoy the pond too and the acoustics completely drown out the sounds of the world around us (only found thatbout after getting it running). The little Japanese maple perfectly hides the pipes to the pump from view. There's just so much time into it. Everything to the smallest detail. I got curious and started looking and found the original listing from when my sellers bought and saw the place as it was designed and the plants everywhere....I just could not destroy what magic they made for lack of a better term! So I'm bringing it back to life. The whole place. It was all a wreck. It barely appraised, but under literally feet of decaying plant matter, I have found seasoned passion flower, raspberries, 12ish different kinds of lillies, under that overgrowth we cut back on what we now call gnome mountain built around the weir, there's this beautiful green and white bush coming in, the fancy grass is actually flowers this year, there was an herb garden that is coming back, lavender, a sage tree, all of which is easily fed and maintained by the pond maintenance. All designed to prevent erosion too. There's more but this is just what is centered around the pond to keep fertilized from it. A no water wasted system.

I also think if I fix the grading the weir drainage will cross the pathway, which has grooves that only make sense for this purpose, to water the gardens on the other side too. The neglect added dirt from decomp and overgrown roots galore. So soon, a water change will just be a valve turning. No stopping the pump needed. Just turning off the intake valve from the skimmer if dropping that low. And it will take 15 mins to drain the average 10-20%. Oh my, I really got going there!

It's our own slice of paradise now. I am really excited for this new hobby! My only regret is moving too fast. I absolutely put the cart before the horse and the issues shook my confidence.
 

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