Check valve placement?

[Pablo]

I am going to have an external pump, PerformancePro, receiving from a Helix skimmer (pond will be about 4 to 5k gallons) and pumping to a bog. The pump will be at or below water level and can be placed fairly close to the skimmer.

I'm a little confused as to where the check valve should be placed, when you read or watch videos you see some mention they are connected to the pump, some connected to the skimmer, some underwater (I guess inside the skimmer??). I know the valve is not to be a spring valve and I also know from many comments that the valves are prone to fail so I was wondering where would be the easiest place to install it so it can be replaced at some point, also some are threaded and some are slip, I would think the threaded would be easier to replace.

The digging of the pond begins this weekend (finally nice weather!! been weeks). So I have plenty of time and can do whatever configuration that you all advise, obviously easier to deal with this early in the process rather than later.

 

[GBBUDD]

Your going with exactly what I started with.
Performance pro 12000 but mine was just above water level if you can get it at or below great but you will need a ball valve between the skimmer and the pump. So when you open the prefilter/strainer you can stop the water flow a check valve at that point in line is a waste of money imo.

Now when you pump up to the bog that is a different story. The issue here is when the power goes out that you need to stop the back syphon. Two items are used here for myself first was a vaccuume breaker . Available at box stores. For 20 to 30 bucks. It works just oosite of a check valve . When the power goes on it blows the check valve type flap and closes it to the opening which stops air flow in. When the power goes out the flap opens letting in air thus breaking the syphon. I do also have a check valve on this as my pipe is a 3 inch 30 feet long so Incase the vaccume breaker fails due to a plant or a spider blocking the vaccume breaker"unlikely but yes never know"

I should add I also placed a ball valve that runs up to the bog so I can controll a second out feed that creates circulation across the pond.
Imo a ball valve should be on EVERY pipe.in or out.

Lastly I don't know how big your pond is but I'd also look at an intake bay . For the 700 plus hundred dollars that can build a nice intake bay. They surpass skimmers in an area that has leaves dropping or a pond that is under trees. Period

 

[Pablo]

Your going with exactly what I started with.
Performance pro 12000 but mine was just above water level if you can get it at or below great but you will need a ball valve between the skimmer and the pump. So when you open the prefilter/strainer you can stop the water flow a check valve at that point in line is a waste of money imo.

Now when you pump up to the bog that is a different story. The issue here is when the power goes out that you need to stop the back syphon. Two items are used here for myself first was a vaccuume breaker . Available at box stores. For 20 to 30 bucks. It works just oosite of a check valve . When the power goes on it blows the check valve type flap and closes it to the opening which stops air flow in. When the power goes out the flap opens letting in air thus breaking the syphon. I do also have a check valve on this as my pipe is a 3 inch 30 feet long so Incase the vaccume breaker fails due to a plant or a spider blocking the vaccume breaker"unlikely but yes never know"

I should add I also placed a ball valve that runs up to the bog so I can control a second out feed that creates circulation across the pond.
Imo a ball valve should be on EVERY pipe.in or out.

Lastly I don't know how big your pond is but I'd also look at an intake bay . For the 700 plus hundred dollars that can build a nice intake bay. They surpass skimmers in an area that has leaves dropping or a pond that is under trees. Period View attachment 157217View attachment 157218

Thanks, I was really hoping you would be the one to reply, lol. That all makes sense, I was planning a wye after the pump with two ball valves (I have 2" flex pvc sch 40) I noticed a few people mention that it is good to control the flow to the bog, so one line to feed the bog manifold and another just to go to the top of the bog to increase flow for small waterfall to short stream and then back to pond and another waterfall. A little concerned with how hard the ball valves are to turn, will have to play around with those a little.

If the pump ends up being a little higher than water level would you then do a check valve between the skimmer and pump? And is the pump supposed to be lower than where the outflow pipe comes out of the skimmer (that is lower than the actual water level of course) or is it enough that it is just lower than the pond water level. Sorry if that is a dumb question, I kind of understand the backflow problem if the power goes out, but get a little confused when discussing water levels in relation to that.

I do like the intake bay idea. I have followed your builds, just not sure I have the space for it, my build is probably going to be a combination of bagsmom, poconojoe and yours. The proposed pond is already bigger than the wife thought it would be so adding the intake bay may raise some eyebrows, lol. Right now the plan is 25 feet long and 15 feet at its widest, down to 10 ft width at the other end.

 

[Lisak1]

Oh I see how it is…

 

[combatwombat]

As long as the pump inlet is below pond water level, it will get water. If it’s above water level, then you will need the check valve for priming. And unless you have a reliable anti-siphon on the bog, you’re going to want the check valve regardless.

You’ll have issues replacing it even if it’s threaded unless you place it between unions (or ferncos if inside the liner) as you can’t unscrew a threaded fitting in the middle of a run without cutting pipe.

As for turning pvc valves, it’s much easier if you exercise them regularly. I also built a handle that grips right at the stem of the valve and gives me mechanical advantage. It’s nice to have.

 

[Pablo]

As long as the pump inlet is below pond water level, it will get water. If it’s above water level, then you will need the check valve for priming. And unless you have a reliable anti-siphon on the bog, you’re going to want the check valve regardless.

You’ll have issues replacing it even if it’s threaded unless you place it between unions (or ferncos if inside the liner) as you can’t unscrew a threaded fitting in the middle of a run without cutting pipe.

As for turning pvc valves, it’s much easier if you exercise them regularly. I also built a handle that grips right at the stem of the valve and gives me mechanical advantage. It’s nice to have.

Thanks, appreciate the clarification. Pretty sure I will be able to be below the water level. I did see your handle and saw another video from a diy tutorial with the similar design. When I received the valves I thought there was something wrong, or I was incredibly weak, lol. Then I saw that was a common issue.

 

[Pablo]

Oh I see how it is…

Lol, yep, you know it starts with "it will just be 15 by 10, small project..." Then I just threw all of you under the bus and told her that everyone says go larger than you think because it is hard to expand later

 

[GBBUDD]

A little concerned with how hard the ball valves are to turn, not all ball valves are created equal ,........................... if i had to do things over all ball valves would be schedule 80. better builds.

would you then do a check valve between the skimmer and pump? ......................................... What i would do is something like this but a bigger one that i have seen. This should always hold enough water when out flow pipe is at the intake to the pump. that way there's always enough to prime the pump . best is at water level and just shut the ball valve. https://lesliespool.com/waterway-trap-6in.-1.5-fpt-x-1.5-buttress-x-2in.-union/600229.html?src=WKND2331&msclkid=c017dfa72d1616ce7818bbf2b61e75c4&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=#PLA_(0)_LPM_(1)_BNG_(2)_US_(5)_WEB_(7)_NBG_(9)_ALL_(15)_National|&utm_term=4580771613573406&utm_content=All Products

And is the pump supposed to be lower than where the outflow pipe comes out of the skimmer................ lower or at . external pumps are terrible at pulling water . they push water.

The proposed pond is already bigger than the wife thought it would be. ............. what are we besides to PISS THEM OFF ...............

25 feet long and 15 feet at its widest, down to 10 ft width at the other end. I CAN'T STRESS ENOUGH on a good size pond to have a narrow opening to an area " like an intake bay" for catching unwanted or sick fish . I DID NOT BUILD SUCH AN AREA and it did not take long to realize catching a being that is at home in water in an area 25 feet long 18 feet wide and up to 6 feet deep was IMPOSSIBLE it takes hours. i have a large intake and it is by far the handiest part of the pond my helix skimmer is a hood ornament over in the corner. plus it makes the pond look more natural when there's a jog or water behind edging .

@combatwombat brought up another critical part , the unions if you don't do unions then make sure you leave a few inches pipe between really every fitting if possible. that way when the addition gets added on later like in intake bay or the cistern . oh wait that's my bad doing all that. i'm addicted

 

[Pablo]

@combatwombat brought up another critical part , the unions if you don't do unions then make sure you leave a few inches pipe between really every fitting if possible. that way when the addition gets added on later like in intake bay or the cistern . oh wait that's my bad doing all that. i'm addicted

Thanks for all the info. You keep wanting to add to my project, lol. Have to leave something to do in the future Maybe wait until the next time Taylor Swift has a concert in the area. My 13 yr old daughter is eager to help with this project as I told her I would give her some money each time she helps, she wants the money to pay for merchandise when she goes to see Taylor Swift in two weeks. So my little Kubota better do a lot of digging this weekend, I will lose my helper in two weeks, lol.

 

[combatwombat]

Do keep in mind that, with unions, they are still more for service than replacement, unless you have a way to recover them (threaded or socket saver) because there is no standardized size/thread pitch on unions. They are all proprietary to each manufacturer. If you can’t recover both side me of the union when you go to replace what is between them, it’s likely you’ll be cutting out the unions too!

 

[GBBUDD]

Thanks for all the info. You keep wanting to add to my project, lol. Have to leave something to do in the future Maybe wait until the next time Taylor Swift has a concert in the area. My 13 yr old daughter is eager to help with this project as I told her I would give her some money each time she helps, she wants the money to pay for merchandise when she goes to see Taylor Swift in two weeks. So my little Kubota better do a lot of digging this weekend, I will lose my helper in two weeks, lol.

sounds like the help will just be another drain in the project to me, and you say i'm adding to it.

 

[GBBUDD]

@Pablo
would you then do a check valve between the skimmer and pump? ......................................... I would also add that check valve before the strainer. unless your even with the intake and water level