Good pond feeder fish?

[Jonathon]

Hello, I am going to be build a pond soon, about 5 feet by 4 and a half and about 36" deep. I plan on putting maybe a koi and a goldfish, along with little fish for them to eat and plants. What fish would you recommend I out in there for the koi to eat? I don't want to be feeding the koi and goldfish. I'm in Sacramento California so the temperature is maybe low 40s in the winter and up to 100s in the summer. What would be a good small feeder fish I can put in for the koi and goldfish that will also reproduce a lot? Also what material should I put at the bottom if they lay eggs? Any other advice please reply with also. Oh and can koi eat bread or it that unhealthy?

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Koi and Goldfish do not eat other fish, Their natural diet consists of algae, zooplankton, benthic organisms and detritus.
Bread is also a no-no. Although Koi and Goldfish will eat it, bread does not adequately contribute to their dietary requirements. The results are weak and sickly fish.

 

[sissy]

Koi eat fruit and veggies and anything growing in a pond and koi can grow to a couple of feet long really fast .Goldfish breed like crazy .Your laws may also prohibit them also .To many people releasing them into the wild and causing problems .

 

[Jonathon]

Koi and Goldfish do not eat other fish, Their natural diet consists of algae, zooplankton, benthic organisms and detritus.
Bread is also a no-no. Although Koi and Goldfish will eat it, bread does not adequately contribute to their dietary requirements. The results are weak and sickly fish.

They won't eat other fish if there's nothing else to eat? I saw that online, but I Obv can't believe evything I read on the internet.

 

[Lisak1]

This is an interesting collection of questions! If you don't want to feed your fish, you should stick to goldfish. In a well established pond, goldfish can fine plenty to eat on their own. Koi grow much larger, so they need supplementary feeding.

If your fish breed, they won't lay eggs at the bottom. They actually use vegetation and roots around the edges of the pond. If you have a pond without plants (aka a dedicated koi pond) there are things you can put into the pond for the fish to deposit eggs in - similar to a string mop head.

And no - bread is not for koi or goldfish. It's not for ducks either, even though everyone seems to think ducks in ponds should live on a diet of white bread.

We've established that you found bad information about koi and goldfish eating other fish, so hopefully you have better information about pond building. Do you have plans you'd like to share?

 

[Jonathon]

This is an interesting collection of questions! If you don't want to feed your fish, you should stick to goldfish. In a well established pond, goldfish can fine plenty to eat on their own. Koi grow much larger, so they need supplementary feeding.

If your fish breed, they won't lay eggs at the bottom. They actually use vegetation and roots around the edges of the pond. If you have a pond without plants (aka a dedicated koi pond) there are things you can put into the pond for the fish to deposit eggs in - similar to a string mop head.

And no - bread is not for koi or goldfish. It's not for ducks either, even though everyone seems to think ducks in ponds should live on a diet of white bread.

We've established that you found bad information about koi and goldfish eating other fish, so hopefully you have better information about pond building. Do you have plans you'd like to share?

1. Should I stick purely to gold fish or do you think 1 koi would be okay?
2. My plans are to dig a hole in an area that gets a good balance of sun and shade. Im then going to place sand in the hole and then place one of those pond liners that have a defined shape. Im going to put either a mixture of sand and soil at the bottom or pebbles and soil in some areas. Then I'll but in a few big rocks to hide the rest of the Liner and then I'll probably plant the plants and then wait a few days for the plants to settle in and the water to calm down and then I'll put the fish in and if I do put in a filter I'll put a submergeable filter.
3. What fish can help keep the water clean instead of a filter? Or is a filter really recommended?

 

[IPA]

Stick to gold fish. If you get them from a pond supplier or enthusiast there are varieties that some people mistake for some of the Koi varieties when they fist see them and don't know the difference.

 

[Lisak1]

Ok. Let's start from the beginning... it sounds like you are planning a preformed pond. So koi are out. They are all way too small for koi. Those ponds are generally a couple hundred gallons at most - a few goldfish will do fine in one.

No sand or soil in the bottom. It will only get dirty and create problems with your water quality. A shallow layer of gravel is fine, but not necessary as the whole liner will grow a coating of algae within a few short weeks and look very natural as is.

Some goldfish ponds work fine without a filter, but there are variables to consider - how many fish? How many gallons of water? How many plants? You'll want aeration of some kind - a water fall or air stones, or both. And plants will help as they filter out the nutrients that are present from the fish waste.

You need to do more than wait for things to settle and calm down before you add fish. You need to make sure that your water is free of chlorine, for one. If your pond sits for 24 hours, chlorine will dissipate. But if you have chloramines, you need to add a dechlorinator. Read about about pond cycling to understand what you are trying to accomplish before you start digging.

Hope that helps - keep asking questions. Lots of smart, helpful people here who are happy to assist you!

 

[Jonathon]

Stick to gold fish. If you get them from a pond supplier or enthusiast there are varieties that some people mistake for some of the Koi varieties when they fist see them and don't know the difference.

If I were to get then from a fish store what kind should I get?

 

[DutchMuch]

They won't eat other fish if there's nothing else to eat? I saw that online, but I Obv can't believe evything I read on the internet.

That's like cannibalism if your starving on a boat in the middle of the ocean.

 

[Lisak1]

If I were to get then from a fish store what kind should I get?

Again - start at square one. Let's figure out how big this pond is going to be before you start planning what kind of fish you are going to buy.

 

[DutchMuch]

And to add; cycle your pond before you add fish. Less stressful on the fish, and it lowers how prone they are to disease initially.

 

[Jonathon]

Okay I read on cycling, but I'm confused a little bit... Do I actually have to do something besides make sure the ph is below 7? Or does the cycle just happen naturally. Also will crayfish be fine in the pond? I'm guessing it's to small for a turtle.

 

[DutchMuch]

Okay I read on cycling, but I'm confused a little bit... Do I actually have to do something besides make sure the ph is below 7? Or does the cycle just happen naturally. Also will crayfish be fine in the pond? I'm guessing it's to small for a turtle.

Basically in your pond size goldfish is the only inhabitant you can have other than the occasional frog. IMO. Crayfish will die, the goldfish will kill them. And they need specific gh/kh readings.


Cycling is when you have/grow/enough beneficial bacteria in your biological filtration system (Nitrifying bacteria).
These bacteria remove Ammonia, and Nitrite from the water column creating there waste that is Nitrate. Nitrate is then obsorbs by plants you have in the pond or hanging into your pond.
Nitrite and ammonia are toxic to fish and can stress them out, this causes proneness to disease or fungus growth on/in the fish.

You can cycle your pond by doing an in fish cycle:
And in fish cycle is where you have your filtrations system not yet cycled with nitrifying bacteria growing on it, and you add the fish to the water anyway. The fish produce the Nitrite and Ammonia for the beneficial bacteria colony to begin growing in your biological filtration system. Slowly reaching a large enough colony to sustain your fish or inhabitants. However an in fish cycle is risky in all cases, because it can stress the fish out leaving them again prone to disease or fungus growth. And is just uncomfortable to them.

You can also do a fishless cycle:
Fishless cycle is where you have your biological filtration setup on/in your pond but you do not have fish in the pond to produce ammonia or nitrite. There are multiple ways you can support ammonia and nitrite in your pond still, by adding food, or adding special products made for this situation. This is a more commonly used practice as it doesn't stress out your fish, because they aren't there yet. But when you add them and acclimate them to your ponds water, they will be way less prone to disease/fungus growth.


Also a cycle takes usually around 1 month regardless of the method you use.

 

[Jonathon]

Basically in your pond size goldfish is the only inhabitant you can have other than the occasional frog. IMO. Crayfish will die, the goldfish will kill them. And they need specific gh/kh readings.


Cycling is when you have/grow/enough beneficial bacteria in your biological filtration system (Nitrifying bacteria).
These bacteria remove Ammonia, and Nitrite from the water column creating there waste that is Nitrate. Nitrate is then obsorbs by plants you have in the pond or hanging into your pond.
Nitrite and ammonia are toxic to fish and can stress them out, this causes proneness to disease or fungus growth on/in the fish.

You can cycle your pond by doing an in fish cycle:
And in fish cycle is where you have your filtrations system not yet cycled with nitrifying bacteria growing on it, and you add the fish to the water anyway. The fish produce the Nitrite and Ammonia for the beneficial bacteria colony to begin growing in your biological filtration system. Slowly reaching a large enough colony to sustain your fish or inhabitants. However an in fish cycle is risky in all cases, because it can stress the fish out leaving them again prone to disease or fungus growth. And is just uncomfortable to them.

You can also do a fishless cycle:
Fishless cycle is where you have your biological filtration setup on/in your pond but you do not have fish in the pond to produce ammonia or nitrite. There are multiple ways you can support ammonia and nitrite in your pond still, by adding food, or adding special products made for this situation. This is a more commonly used practice as it doesn't stress out your fish, because they aren't there yet. But when you add them and acclimate them to your ponds water, they will be way less prone to disease/fungus growth.


Also a cycle takes usually around 1 month regardless of the method you use.

What if the crayfish have somewhere to hide?
And could I just use some cheap 14 ¢ goldfish to cycle the water before putting in the fish I'll be keeping there? Or is that just cruel?

 

[Nyboy]

You might want to research what predators are in your area. Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there not there. Can be upsetting going out and finding fish missing. Sometimes it seems everyone likes fish for dinner. Good luck

 

[DutchMuch]

Then you would have to do something with those 14c fish.
Crayfish, is a no no. Hiding spots or not, like I said they are sensitive to the gh/kh of your water. And need totally different requirements than any fish.
As for cruel, idk if I would go to that extent. But I don't do it, just as easy to wait and be patient as it is to spend more money on a dead fish.

 

[IPA]

Feeder fish are kept in nasty overstocked tanks and most often full of diseases. That isn't always true, but it is more often than not.

 

[Lisak1]

Crayfish, is a no no. Hiding spots or not, like I said they are sensitive to the gh/kh of your water. And need totally different requirements than any fish.

Hmmm... we've got a couple of crayfish that have lived in our pond for five years. We see them maybe half a dozen times a summer, but they're still there. Our fish don't even give them a second glance. I was initially worried that they might go after the fish, but they all just seem to leave each other alone.

Do I actually have to do something besides make sure the ph is below 7

I'm not sure what you read about cycling your pond that made you think you want your pH below 7. That would actually not be desirable at all.

 

[Mmathis]

Hello and welcome! Another thing to mention is the size of your pond. At 5' x 4' and 3' deep, there isn't a lot of surface area in relation to the volume. The amt. of surface area is important because that's where the gasses are exchanged. Maybe someone else can explain it better than I can, but "deep" isn't always better. I'm not saying that you can't have a successful pond, but adding supplemental air would be a good idea.

Have you looked into filtration yet -- how will you keep the water healthy for your fish? And another thing you might want to research is the nitrogen cycle as this is important to know and understand.