Hi Newbie Here

[Davidless]

Hi, my name is David, I live in Buffalo N.Y. and plan on building a pond. I stumbled on this site yesterday and have been reading a lot of the great info so far.

I would love it if you people could help me with some questions.

First off, as you can see, I'm a bit space challenged, but want to somehow squeeze in a 6 x 12 x 3 foot koi/gold fish pond. I will follow most of the standard pond features required for a koi pond build, such as, straight walls, no rocks on bottom, minimum plants, etc.

One dilemma I've been struggling with is the use of a BD. Most builders I have talked to, based on my pond size, said it is not necessary, just use a vacuum when doing a water change. This would definitely make things easier for me.

I'm going to run a 4000 gpg pondmaster hybrid pump in my skimmer box. With all of the losses calculated, I’m figuring on a pond turnover rate of about 1 per hour, which will equate to about 20 bucks a month in pump run costs. Running a second pump and filter system for the BD is not very appealing to me, but if it needs to be done than I will have to figure out where to hide the extra tank and such.

Another dilemma is for the pond edging to hide my exposed liner. I plan on using the coping method suggested by Savio, that is, digging a 6 inch deep x 8 inch wide cope around the perimeter for placing the rocks. The water level can be brought up to about 2-3 inches from the bottom of the rocks, thus, hiding the liner. Duh, as you experts know all ready.

The third challenge is my waterfalls. I plan on placing the water falls box about 12-18 inches below the dirt which will make blending in a little easier, but I’m still having trouble visualizing this, even after many hours of looking at pictures. I guess I will have to make some sort of back wall against my fence. Is there a formula based on spillway width (22") compared to the width the falls need to be, and how deep of a trench will I need to keep the water from gushing outside?

Thanks for any help and suggestions

David

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[addy1]

Welcome

we will all be glad to help you. You could do a retro fit bottom drain. Or just clean. You may want to stick with goldfish or shubunkins, they are more forgiving then koi. and can be just as pretty, but not the poop machine a koi is

A lot of us have rocks around the edge of the pond to hide the liner, you can make it look real natural with how you place the rocks.

The waterfall I need to think on,................heading for the pool right now, brain on pause lol

 

[Davidless]

I've just spent a couple of hours doing reading on dedicated BD for koi ponds. You need quit a lot of space for the vortex tank and pump. As you can see, I'm sort of out of luck with my limited space for that type of filtration system.

I guess koi are out, just gold fish and a vacuuum for me :lol:

David

 

[fishin4cars]

hello, can you please post a introduction thread, thank you.

 

[taherrmann4]

Hi, my name is David, I live in Buffalo N.Y. and plan on building a pond. I stumbled on this site yesterday and have been reading a lot of the great info so far.

I would love it if you people could help me with some questions.

First off, as you can see, I'm a bit space challenged, but want to somehow squeeze in a 6 x 12 x 3 foot koi/gold fish pond. I will follow most of the standard pond features required for a koi pond build, such as, straight walls, no rocks on bottom, minimum plants, etc.

One dilemma I've been struggling with is the use of a BD. Most builders I have talked to, based on my pond size, said it is not necessary, just use a vacuum when doing a water change. This would definitely make things easier for me.

I'm going to run a 4000 gpg pondmaster hybrid pump in my skimmer box. With all of the losses calculated, I’m figuring on a pond turnover rate of about 1 per hour, which will equate to about 20 bucks a month in pump run costs. Running a second pump and filter system for the BD is not very appealing to me, but if it needs to be done than I will have to figure out where to hide the extra tank and such.

Another dilemma is for the pond edging to hide my exposed liner. I plan on using the coping method suggested by Savio, that is, digging a 6 inch deep x 8 inch wide cope around the perimeter for placing the rocks. The water level can be brought up to about 2-3 inches from the bottom of the rocks, thus, hiding the liner. Duh, as you experts know all ready.

The third challenge is my waterfalls. I plan on placing the water falls box about 12-18 inches below the dirt which will make blending in a little easier, but I’m still having trouble visualizing this, even after many hours of looking at pictures. I guess I will have to make some sort of back wall against my fence. Is there a formula based on spillway width (22") compared to the width the falls need to be, and how deep of a trench will I need to keep the water from gushing outside?

Thanks for any help and suggestions

David

[/IMG]

David Welcome aboard.

Now your question about the BD, if I were starting over I would put one in to help keep the bottom of the pond cleaner. My pond is a bit larger, deeper and I have koi so every spring and fall I have to vacuum it out (the pond vac was expensive). I believe I would not have to do this if I had the BD. My answer probably does not help you all that much.

Have you already bought the pump? If not you may want to go with a bit more powerful one if you were going to do the BD. My pump is an external Sequence and I will be doing a retro fit BD in the near future, but my pump has more than enough power to do this. It may cost me $30/month to run if that.

You can take a look at my pond as I have done the coping method.

Your last question about the falls. I don't think there is a formula that I know of but I will tell you what I have done. I have the same savio skimmer and filter that you have in your pic (at least it looks similar). The way I did mine is I dug it out about 3' wide at its narrowist point and up to 4', is dug down anywhere from 6" to 18" deep, this can be your choice depending on the look you are going for. Once you add your rocks for the side of the creek/falls sort of like you would on the pond (coping) it changes the actual wide of the creek/falls. My actual falls are only about 2' max and as narrow as 12" on some of the falls. You can take a look at my pics via the links in this post, they may help. If I have confused you more let me know and I will try to explain it again.:lol: You can also put a ball valve on your line after your pump to reduce the flow if it is too much.

 

[taherrmann4]

One other thing you said you lived in Buffalo, may want to dig it deeper if you can. I think you are zone 5?

 

[addy1]

I dug my stream and falls over 18 inches wides, by the time liner, rocks etc in it s went down to around 12 inches. All depends on if you want the rushing water look.

here is a calculator for waterfalls,

http://www.pumps-in-stock.com/water_calculator.html

I use the sequence pump external, low electricity use, reliable.

 

[j.w]

Davidless

 

[DrDave]

We have an Intro Thread, please post your intro there

 

[addy1]

At the head of each of my waterfalls I have a area around 12 inches deep, in my stream. Allows for a collection of water before it goes over the falls.

Your water fall box will be doing about the same thing. I assume the trench you are asking about is between the waterfall box and the pond?

 

[Davidless]

Sorry, I missed the intro thread, I feel I pretty much explained it at the beginning of my post. From Buffalo building a 1200 gal pond. Well I will elbarate more tomorrow. At a party and am getting yelled at for being anti social

Happy 4th

David

 

[Davidless]

hello, can you please post a introduction thread, thank you.

Sorry, just did that

David

 

[Davidless]

Youv'e got me thinking of the depth thing. Eveyone I've talked to in the W.N.Y. area said 2 feet is plenty. Our temperatues don't get that cold as compared to upstate N.Y. where they can reach 20 below.

Any way, my big mistake was buying a liner in advance, but I got a pond kit deal I couldnt pass up. Since my size is 7 x 12 x 3, I may be able to get away with going maybe 42 inches. This will just decrease the amount of material left over which was initailly calculated to being 12 inches per side. Instead, it will only be 9 inches per side. If I'm carefull about the digging I may get away with this.

As for the BD, I just don't have enough area in my yard for the filter system. I will have to design a nice vacuum in my spare time.

I'm confused about one poster saying I sould have gone bigger on my pump for the BD. Most BD's use a large diameter pipe that gravity feeds the bottom scum/water into a holding tank which is pumped out by a separate pump (simplified version). The skimmer and biofalls pump is separate.

Any way, again, thanks loads for the info to everyone, and I'm sorry for not using your names here.

Please keep the info flowing, I will post some build pictures tomorrow. Did a great score on my rock, which was worrying me to say the least. I want to keep with in my budget, but wait, I'm over it.

Thanks ,

David

 

[fishin4cars]

You'll be glad going deeper, I wish I had for cooler water in the summer and I know my koi would have been happier if I had.
On the bottom drains, your correct that that is how most would plum a bottom drain in but it can be plumbed into the skimmer box as well, Going this route a larger pump pulls the waste better but some of the flow needs to be diverted as the filters usually have a harder time working with the additional flow rate, It's a trade off design.

 

[Davidless]

At the head of each of my waterfalls I have a area around 12 inches deep, in my stream. Allows for a collection of water before it goes over the falls.

Your water fall box will be doing about the same thing. I assume the trench you are asking about is between the waterfall box and the pond?

Yes,

My weir opening is 22 inches. I'm not sure of the width and depth I need to make for the falls entering my pond. I don't want to have to redo them once the water is pumping and realize I've made them to narrow and shallow, spillage

My weir will be about 2 feet from the pond edge at about 24 inches high facing the pond edge at a 45 degree angle for veiwing.

I'm going to use some retaining blocks behind the falls against my fence. So I'm guessing I just pile pond dirt around the weir for the build up.

David